Today we’re diving into a fascinating conversation with Andy, the mind behind the YouTube channel “Andy Joins Cults.” This episode of Supernormalized is all about spiritual awakening, cults, and the unexpected paths that lead to self-discovery.
Andy’s journey is nothing short of extraordinary. From a depressed, overweight smoker to a spiritual seeker exploring the fringes of consciousness, his story is a testament to the power of personal transformation. We delve into his experiences with various spiritual practices, including tantra, meditation, and even psychedelics, and how they’ve shaped his understanding of reality.
One of the most intriguing aspects of Andy’s story is his encounter with what he believes to be a reptilian entity during a spiritual retreat in Egypt. While he’s careful not to claim this as absolute truth, his openness to discussing such experiences is refreshing and thought-provoking.
Throughout our chat, Andy emphasizes the importance of questioning reality, challenging societal norms, and taking control of one’s own spiritual journey. His insights on manifestation, the nature of consciousness, and the potential for human connection beyond our current paradigms are truly eye-opening.
Whether you’re a skeptic, a believer, or somewhere in between, this episode offers a unique perspective on spirituality, personal growth, and the nature of reality itself. So sit back, open your mind, and join us for this incredible conversation with Andy.
https://www.youtube.com/@andyjoinscults
Chapters List:
00:00 Introduction to Andy and His Unique Journey
03:14 The Accidental Spiritual Tour: How Andy Stumbled into Cults
07:16 Mushroom Ceremony on the Nile: A Turning Point
11:24 The Birth of “Andy Joins Cults” YouTube Channel
16:54 Exploring the Darkness: Necessary for Growth?
22:31 From Depression to Spiritual Awakening: Andy’s Transformation
31:10 The Easy Way to Stop Smoking: A Spiritual Catalyst
36:32 Manifestation and Creating Your Reality
40:49 Embracing the Darkness: Learning from Negative Experiences
46:07 The Joe Dispenza Experience: Daily Meditation Practice
51:35 The Reptilian Encounter: Fact or Fiction?
56:29 Truth, Perception, and Personal Reality
01:01:09 Closing Thoughts: The Importance of Personal Experience
01:02:17 Where to Find Andy’s Work
Transcript
Andy (00:00)
you can’t control what goes on in this world. That’s not what you can do. But you can control how you react to it. That’s the one thing you can do, is you can control how you react to any given situation.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (00:22)
Welcome to Super Normalized. Today I’m talking to Andy. He is the host for his YouTube channel, Andy Joins Cults. And I’ve got to say, I’ve watched one of his videos last night ⁓ and what a presentation. He had been a part of the Star Magic Healing Cult in Egypt on a journey that went in an unusual direction he did not expect and
I’ll get into that in the episode, but let’s just say it’s one of these stories that makes you go, my God, that’s huge. Andy’s a very honest guy. He’s grounded. He’s been through a life that we all go through, struggled with earlier youth, even though he had everything, depressed, came out of that and found his way towards spirituality and a grounded understanding of the world that he’s still exploring. And he does so through his…
his videos on Andy joins cults on YouTube. So this is gonna be a great episode to watch. Make sure you watch all the way to the end, because there’s so much more in it than I expected. I I didn’t know where this could go. And Andy is so clear and so honest and so open about his understanding. I’m sure you’ll enjoy on with the show.
Before I get into this episode, I’m going to say that one thing you need to understand as a listener is that ⁓ there is ⁓ an explanation of Andy’s ⁓ suicide experience. And if that’s triggering for you, maybe you switch this one off. But ⁓ he has some views which are very controversial and ⁓ I may leave them in or may take them out, but it’ll still give a rounded understanding of what happened to him at that time. ⁓ So yeah, please.
Be aware of that
Andy (02:38)
You there?
CeeJay – Supernormalized (02:38)
Sorry, mate. I’ve got to say that whenever I’ve had
⁓ potential conversations that might upset those that control reality.
Andy (02:48)
Hmm.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (02:49)
all right,
in different ways. But this is the first time they’ve actually literally pulled out all my drivers from the microphone. I had recorded a video just before meeting with you. Everything was fine. So I expected all the settings to be exactly the same. So I just jumped in the room and it was like, what? There’s no drivers. This is insane. So I downloaded, refreshed, and we’re in here now. So welcome to Super Normalized Andy.
Andy (03:14)
Thanks very much, I’m excited to be on Super Normalized. Nice to meet you.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (03:19)
Yeah, good to meet you too. I watched last night ⁓ your episode summarizing your experiences with some challenging people that happened about three months ago. That was really interesting for me because I had an encounter myself with a reptilian girl. She came into my life and basically turned it upside down and it was really bizarre how things rolled out with her.
In the end, she actually exposed herself to me one time in a very vulnerable situation and her mask came off. And I said, I looked at her and I was like, my God, she’s a beautiful lizard. Wait a minute, she’s a reptilian. And it blew my mind. And I said, you’re a reptilian. And she goes, no, you are. I’m like, oh, okay, well, I know what you are now. So thank you. And we didn’t last long.
Andy (04:09)
That makes sense, yeah, I can see that.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (04:13)
So you’ve had a bit of a huge journey in your life ⁓ going through ⁓ many processes of self-discovery and ⁓ how far do want to go back?
Andy (04:28)
wherever you want to start. Self-discovery is definitely where it started. I ended up, if you’re talking about the Star Magic stuff, I ended up on that tour completely by accident. I didn’t do any research. I just wanted to go to Egypt. So my world view at that point in time was very…
let’s go to Egypt, see Egypt like a normal person and I googled like spiritual tour of Egypt or something and basically I ended up I ended up like on this thing and I was just like this guy is very strange and I didn’t and I had a camera with me and I thought well I’ll interview him and see what’s going on and he seemed like there’s lots of like ⁓ very
suspicious behavior immediately like as ⁓ I joined that group like
He didn’t know my relationship with him which was basically zero I’d never looked at his YouTube If I’d looked at his YouTube I would never have gone Like the guy’s He’s got like a song called Spiritual Gangster and it’s him rapping about being a spiritual gangster I really should have done a modicum of research but if I didn’t do a If I did that I probably wouldn’t be here talking about it so that is what it is But
CeeJay – Supernormalized (05:51)
Hmm. Yeah.
Andy (05:55)
because I wouldn’t have gone on the thing but ⁓ it was it was just very strange like he was doing things like immediately like ⁓ love bombing me like I love you man and I’m like I don’t know you I mean great I love that you love me and whatever but just like a lot of this stuff and I just thought right okay I need to like navigate this and figure out like what I’m doing here so started interviewing him
I found him very curious and he was very keen to get me to join his company and to do all this and I was like no chance, I’m here, I’m interviewing you but this is not like I wasn’t very interested in becoming closer to him. found him very…
Strange. like fast forward to the like maybe the eighth day on that tour, I joined a ceremony, mushroom ceremony on the Nile, which I kind of had the hesitations about. But I mean, a lot of reservations about it, really. But I thought, well, how often am I going to get the opportunity to do this? Like so I did that. And then I witnessed something like having done many mushroom ceremonies in my life and I’d be very comfortable with psychedelics.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (07:06)
Hmm.
Andy (07:16)
I wasn’t worried about it and like I didn’t have a bad time during the ceremony but I was able to watch so I was able to watch how they held space like what they were doing and ⁓ yeah like very very clearly trying to create fear in people trying to like talk about shadow work and and all this stuff which psilocybin is not really about and
and it kind of like raised big alarm bells like having been many many ceremonies that have been very safe and heart opening and beautiful experiences what was going on there was very weird and yeah having the group doing this like ⁓
kind of like doing a lot of like magic out in the open very very like sigil magic or kind of like chanting and and and working with like yeah working with what I presume to be I don’t I don’t want to say I know this for a fact but presume to be black magic in the sense that it was done without anybody’s consent it was certainly done without my consent and it was done for their own end
So during this piece of this moment in time that’s I kind of realized like like this guy basically as you said earlier like kind of like ⁓
become something different than his human physical form. I don’t know how he did that. It didn’t seem plausible to me. And at the point in my life, I didn’t really have any conceptual way of understanding it. It was only afterwards where I realized, actually I’m going to go look at this and…
and understand it and see what it could be. And I came to the conclusion that this person could very well be ⁓ a reptilian being. And I would stand by that, my assessment, whatever I said in my documentary, I stand by whatever I said in that. But it’s been a while since I recorded it.
And yeah, it was an intense experience and it was very clear to me that this guy was a predator, like he was certainly acting upon ⁓ predatory intentions and I didn’t have a good impression of him overall. ⁓ yeah, got the hell out there and…
and that really kind of started off like my the concept of my channel, my YouTube channel which like I was like well I’ve recorded this stuff I don’t know how to explain it maybe I’ll just chuck it out there maybe some people can like interpret it and see what what they think I definitely didn’t feel worried about like leave like putting this stuff out there as somebody who like this stuff was very new to me
I didn’t feel psychotic, I didn’t feel like it was in any way like I’d lost my sense of reality. I felt like this was a very strange thing to have experienced and I wanted to share that like with the understanding that hey, I don’t know what’s going on. This seemed very strange. This guy’s a weirdo. Like what I’m witnessing is predatory like cult like practices and.
And yeah, like maybe I can go and explore more of these things that are a little less dangerous, like things that are being called cults that maybe, maybe could…
CeeJay – Supernormalized (10:53)
Mm.
Andy (10:56)
could do with a better naming of that. So I joined a few other things which we can talk about if you want, but some things that have been really, really positive in my life and some things that have also kind of like, yeah, just helped me understand this reality a little bit better. If anybody can understand that at all, I think anybody who pretends to understand what’s going on in this reality is either a…
scoundrel because I don’t think anybody does.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (11:24)
Hmm.
I’ve got to say that the idea of your YouTube channel called Andy joins cult is fantastic because these things need to happen so people can actually see the frameworks that we’re all living within because a lot of the world actually is very cult like when it comes to its programming and everything. So to even go and do that is brave, I would say for one thing because I’ve had experience with cults in the past, ⁓ rescuing a girlfriend from one at the time.
Andy (11:39)
Mm-hmm.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (11:56)
and the cult leader come up to me and like you said, love bombing me and I’m like, I don’t know you bro, I don’t know why you’re doing this, this is odd and that just triggered all this stuff for me and I did some research into trauma-based mind control and then realized what he was doing. I was like, this is not very good. So yeah, all credit to you for doing that but I’ve got to say too that when you were doing the video and you were talking about how you were protecting yourself and then also.
Andy (12:00)
Yeah.
Yeah. There’s a lot.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (12:21)
Putting up a framework to say, don’t agree. ⁓
Andy (12:26)
Yeah.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (12:26)
rituals and any of these incantations and everything like that as a part of your breaking away from that situation, that’s fantastic. Most people aren’t aware to do that. So, you know, I do give you massive credit for that and I wish more people were aware that spirits do actually have such a strong effect upon ourselves and there are actual races which, you know, are ⁓ universal, maybe intra-terrestrial or ultra-terrestrial.
that actually do have nefarious sort of plans and they are here. I’ve experienced them too.
Andy (13:00)
Yeah, absolutely. I think I think that was something that I learned is that that that really you are as I in terms of like how you interpret the world.
thinking about the concept of protection and understanding that you are.
a conscious being and you have influence over how you interpret the world, right? you can, if you think everybody’s out to get you, they probably are, right? Like if you think the world is a wonderful place full of beautiful, amazing people, it probably is. And it’s like the conceptualization of individual perspective on reality is not really taught to us. So like basically we can be living in this entire
We’re all sharing this reality, we’re all sharing this world, but there are so many different, there’s a big spectrum of what that reality means to people. Some people just think they’re really lucky and then they just become really lucky or unlucky or depressed or whatever. It snowballs, right? Because you create your own reality based on the senses that you have to interpret this reality and then you create your own truth. So back to your point about protecting myself, it’s like
I don’t allow somebody else to hijack my consciousness. I don’t allow somebody to influence me in a way that I don’t agree to. I don’t allow…
somebody to perform incantations on me, all these kind of things. They can’t affect you if you don’t agree to it, right? Like if you believe that you’re a victim and this is how they get you, this is how like a lot of these cults, a lot of these people will prey on people. And it’s not just like weird cults, it’s like you can call our entire
CeeJay – Supernormalized (14:45)
Mm.
Andy (15:00)
mainstream culture, cult as well. It’s like how do they get you just by how they program your mind and how they believe that you either need them or that they’ve got power over you or whatever. And if you believe that it’s true ultimately and it’s kind of like a lot of what I chose to do at that moment was go right like I don’t, can’t really get off this boat but like I can also choose to like detach myself from whatever they want to.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (15:04)
Yeah.
Andy (15:29)
to involve me in because it’s not of interest to me.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (15:35)
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The awareness is actually what counts and ⁓ you’re speaking there to sort of like a co-creation sort of experience of reality too. And it’s good to actually have your own contracts with yourself and what you’ll agree to. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓ I had an experience, like I didn’t believe in possession, for example, for myself at all. Didn’t believe it because I had like a spiritual sort of bent, but also had a bit of a scientific, you know, reasoning mind going alongside that at the same time.
Andy (15:49)
Yeah, exactly.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (16:05)
As a part of that was like, well, possession is just a psychological event. And that’s what I believed until I was possessed. And then when I was possessed and had two other entities inside me trying to derail every part of my life and I could hear them planning and plotting besides my own personal inner voice, then at that point I was like, my God, this is actually something else that’s here. And it’s here inside me. And I had to exercise that. And as a part of that exercise, and it took… ⁓
a series of months with the help of another shaman that was very, very helpful. But at one stage they attempted to indoctrinate me again through a dream. And I thought I was actually sitting at my computer reading something on the screen, but it turned out, I was reading, was like, what? This is an incantation. Then I woke up, wait a minute, no, no, no, no, no. That’s not happening. And I had to pull back. And as I pulled back, they got angry. I could sense their anger.
Andy (16:54)
Wow.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (17:00)
caused all this drama around me and everything. And I was like, okay, no, no, no, it’s not gonna happen again. So yeah, now I’m working from the other side.
Andy (17:06)
Wow. Yeah, I mean.
that will change your mind. think a lot of these things, yeah, they exist, right? They absolutely exist. it’s also, it’s important to just kind of have this open mind, right? Like I was saying earlier, like anybody who purports to know anything about this reality, like, I don’t know, like.
It’s a very like we can pretend it’s all normal. We can pretend this like this whole thing this whole charade of like Getting up in the morning going to get to work and like voting for your president and all of this nonsense like we can pretend it’s all real and we can pretend these people are in charge and it’s all like I I really like on these podcasts or I’ve been doing a lot of these a few of these podcasts and I like I guess like I if I want to like share
something I think like one of the things that I want to like help
just kind of like plant the seed out there is that like this is all a charade right like we collectively now we’ve got the technology we can talk to like a Chinese person can talk to a Russian person can talk to a UK or US person talk to a Spanish person right and at some point we’ll all figure out that these people that we vote for that we pretend are our leaders like they’re they’re all at it and they’re just like dragging us along so what we could
effectively just choose to do like really as a human race forget about the differences between all of us and whatever is like first of all go admit like none of us know what the fuck’s going on and then second of all go like why don’t we just like we’re all here nobody most most people don’t want to fight most people don’t want to put billions and trillions of dollars into like a war machine why don’t we just sack all the people running the show like just forget all if you go go to an island enjoy your reti
See you later. And then we can just figure out like guys you know when you sing to water it like creates these beautiful crystals or have you had the DMT experience? What the hell is that? Like these things are like why are these not the front page news? I have no idea right like like man has like
CeeJay – Supernormalized (19:07)
Yeah, yeah.
Andy (19:26)
near-death experience in a DMT teacher or whatever meets entities and realizes that we’re all God right like or something right like why is that not front page news instead of like like whatever’s going on in the middle east and stuff because we we can stop that like very very quickly but we’re
But back to the concept of indoctrination and hypnotism, we’re all hypnotized to believe, oh no, this is actually going on and this has nothing to do with us and I hope our president can solve it. Our president, whoever your president is, is the cause of it. need to, they’re the terrorists, our government are the terrorists and we need to basically get rid of them and then figure out what we can do as a human race. That’s my belief is if we can all figure that out, just go and write, let’s start again. We’ve got this far.
That’s brilliant. We’ve all got Apple Macs now what actually can we do to like solve world hunger and figure out like what’s going on in this world and figure out what this reality could be like what it actually could be because we’re in control of that so a lot of these entities talking about possession talking about all these like talking about Channeling talking about all this other stuff that’s going on this fucking super like crazy and spooky and weird and cool like
There’s all of this, there’s all of this stuff, mad stuff going on in the world and…
Nobody’s got any clue about what’s going on So why don’t we just like take a pause stop killing each other fighting and just like and start going right? What could what the hell’s going on really like I don’t like that’s my real belief is that we need to like We’re kept in this loop of like trauma and fear and like and believing that the people we vote for have any Like our good benevolent beings. They’re not they’re possessed in a different way
CeeJay – Supernormalized (21:00)
Hmm, yeah.
Andy (21:18)
they’re possessed by something like some kind of like energy that’s then being passed on to us and we believe it.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (21:27)
All right, well, I agree with you with your greater reset. actually makes a lot of sense to me and I’m on board. I’m on board. That would be ⁓ exposing. We’ll just see how that goes. But it does seem like we’re actually leaning more into that sort of thing over time. Most common people now are starting to even talk about things that I’ve known for my whole life when it comes to an understanding of how things work. So, you know, it does seem that that’s changing.
Andy (21:32)
like, them all off. Yeah, thanks.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (21:56)
I believe it’s changing. Yeah, it swings. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Andy (21:57)
It’s polarity, right? Like the pendulum can swing, like if it swings all the way to that way, it’s got to swing back. So
I think that’s what we’re in the middle of. And that shift is happening like in many ways across the world. So I really do think it is happening. And I hope it doesn’t take like a big event for people to be like, ⁓ what are we doing? Like that would suck. Like I feel like that could be where it’s leading and I hope it doesn’t, but.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (22:26)
We’ve
had that, I think we’ve already had one of the biggest ones, was the 2020 and all that craziness. Do you feel like if we circle back to your early life and go through some of that story? Because I found that really fascinating as well.
Andy (22:31)
Yeah, I mean that’s crazy.
Sure, so I mean, it depends where you want. So I was very much asleep for a long time, for longest time, actually. I mean, I had a good job. was relatively smart, right? But like, asleep as hell. And that was like the effectiveness of not really knowing what’s going on. My understanding of this reality is, or at least in the Western reality, they try and shuffle you through to death really fast. You go to school, don’t ask questions.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (22:46)
Yeah.
Andy (23:08)
Here’s the thing. Here’s what we like learn what we tell you you go to university Okay, don’t ask questions get your degree or whatever you get a job and then you got rent to pay and then you’re like before you know it you’re getting up every day and like oh wow, I’ve got a kid now or whatever you’ve got like like so I was in that I was in that cycle of just being like shuffle through life of like okay I’ve got a job now like this is what I’m to do, right?
and I kind of lost any connection to spirituality around about the age of like 12 I was like, I grew up Catholic and I felt like very much like antagonized by that religion I felt like it was an antagonistic religion the entire purpose of Catholicism is actually so that people don’t realize who they are, what they are right like in a sense right like it’s to completely separate you from God right like separate you from the idea
That there’s a big old man in the sky or whatever like there’s something separate to you that you exist and must worship right like and and completely eradicates the concept that you are what you should worship and you ought to be understand you have to understand that we are collectively God right like everything is God there’s no such thing as anything that’s not So like it separates you from that idea like creates the concept of good and evil judgment bad and good all these things and I
like none of it made sense it was just like this is nonsense as like a 12 year old I was like so much is being done in religion’s name so I kind of like lost fully lost any concept of spirituality for 18 years right so it wasn’t till I was 30 and I read probably the most spiritual book I’ve ever read
which is not a spiritual book actually at all but at this point in my life I had suffering like depression for most of entire teens and twenties teens and twenties super depressed because I had this oppressive world on me and I didn’t feel like I had any control I just had to do what everybody else told me to do
get a job, go to university, blah blah blah, do it, pay your bills. And none of it made sense to me, right? Really, really none of it made sense to me. So I was depressed for a good long while. Not like overtly, but like internally, very depressed. I was very functional. I could get up and go to work and stuff like that. And I never trusted pharmaceutical companies. So it left me at this point of my life where I turned 30 and I’d just moved back from Singapore.
and I looked in this mirror, I was at a barber shop and they were cutting my hair and I was really, really, really big at that point, maybe like double the size I am now and I was smoking, I was drinking and I looked in the mirror and I was just like, you need to sort yourself out pal and I read, like I said, one of the most spiritual books I’ve ever read is and I’ve read a lot of actual spiritual books since
was the easy way to stop smoking and why was that a spiritual book? Well, one of the things was like, it helped me understand, it helped me understand like my connection to this reality in a way that, in a way that that was so alien to me at the time. And basically, in a nutshell, the book like helps you stop smoking. Like you can read the book, you can smoke while you read the book.
It helps you start to smoking by changing a few key assumptions about what makes it hard to stop smoking. So the pharmaceutical companies, the doctor industry, the general public will tell you it’s really hard to stop smoking, right? Because there’s an economy around it, right? And then there’s an economy around getting you to stop smoking. But this book just actually goes, you know what, if you start with a feeling of elation, imagine yourself as a non-smoker, how will that feel?
and know that you’re in full control of your reality, then you don’t need to listen to the people who tell you it’s hard, you can just believe, truly believe it’s easy.
and I never smoked a cigarette since, right? So that’s been 10 years ago and that completely changed my understanding of reality because that wasn’t the reality I’d been led to believe. I believe that reality was pretty much fixed, right? Like whatever people were saying and people say it’s hard to stop smoking, I guess it must be hard to stop smoking. But actually if you believe it’s easy, then you can do that. And do that with alcohol, stop drinking alcohol, stop gambling at the time and just all of these things. So that led me to free up my time.
started doing improv, I started like meditating, that was a huge huge change in my life, a massive shift in my life which I still maintain and from there yeah like I was able to start my own company, I started my own like consultancy and just understanding really like we have this like
We have this amazing ability to create, like as beings, that is one thing we all share, is like the ability to like turn nothing, turn an idea into something. At some point you decided to create a podcast, and here we are, we’re talking about weird shit, and it’s great, right? Like that’s what we’re doing, and you had that idea.
And you brought it from nothing into reality. that’s how this reality is shaped, right? Bringing an idea into this physical realm and really starting to understand over time my ability to manifest the reality I want to create, right? Which is a beautiful thing.
and hone that and develop it and use that. And it all started with that book of like how easy way to stop smoking. And then from there, like from meditation, from start my own business, from creating a life that I wanted, I really started diving into like more esoteric realms of like teachers that are incredibly impactful to me. Like starting off with like people like Alan Watts and Osho and a few other people just who
really like challenged my understanding of what reality was and through that got very interested in Tantra, got very interested in like I was practicing breath work for a while like healing things and doing inner child work and yeah like my spiritual journey has been very much accelerated in the last five years particularly after I started doing Tantra, practicing Tantra and learning about that.
Because this stuff is wild, right? This stuff is unbelievably… I mean, you can pick any path, right? doesn’t need to be tantra, can be yoga, can be Kabbalah, can be whatever, right? It can be… I don’t know, Kashmir Shaivism, can be… There’s so many ancient modalities to help actually…
find your place in this world, pick one, they all get to the same point, it’s the same mountain, different paths up the mountain and Tantra for me is particularly appealing because it doesn’t, it’s not like a, it’s not a…
aesthetic path right you don’t need to go into a cave in the mountains and live there with nothing like you can tantra is about experiencing life and really like connecting with this reality in a conscious way so that’s that’s my spiritual story in a nutshell i still feel like a novice i still feel like i’ve got a lot to learn and a lot to grow and a lot to do and but i feel
Yeah, I feel like a big part of my growth has been like diving into yoga and tantra and spiritual teachings as well. So that’s definitely the path I’m on at the moment.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (31:10)
⁓
That’s a good path definitely because it helps you to be grounded but also connected to spirit at the same time.
Andy (31:19)
Mm-mm.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (31:19)
So did mention that you killed yourself successfully. Do want to talk about that? So what happened?
Andy (31:24)
Yeah, so when I was about 28,
like I said, was super depressed. this is like, yeah, so about two years before I read this book, right? So like, and like I said, it was just a random book. was like, it got me on a path of going, huh, I can actually, I can create the reality I want. I can choose to do that. That’s the way I am.
But yeah, like two years before that, I was living in London and I was just depressed. I hated life. I was getting up. I had a great job. had an awesome job with awesome people working in an awesome place. I felt devoid of it. I felt like life was devoid of meaning. I really wasn’t in a happy place. But at the same time, like I said, functional and all the rest of it. But like my life mostly consisted of like getting up.
going to work, kind of miserable in work and not feeling fulfilled and feeling like I was chasing the next promotion or bullshit fucking pay rise or whatever. Feeling very much like a beggar in this world. Give me the promotion, that’ll make me happy. Give me the money. All of this stuff.
And like my weekends consisted mostly of like drinking or smoking weed and gambling and like maybe playing the video game, playing video games. So was like, it was a very desolate, like monotonous life full of like dopamine hits. just like a life that quite honestly, most people live, right? Actually at this moment in time with TikTok and whatever. So I was living that life and I wasn’t feeling fulfilled and I made a very good, like a few attempts
CeeJay – Supernormalized (32:58)
Mm. Yeah.
Andy (33:09)
I can’t give you an exact breakdown of what happened and how it happened and what actually occurred but basically a being came to me what was this being? I don’t know was it myself? maybe was it an angel? maybe it was something right it was like a being that was talking to me
CeeJay – Supernormalized (33:29)
Mm.
Andy (33:29)
and
said to me, not really in English, like in some language that I seem to understand. It wasn’t like a different language, it was just like an intuitive knowing of what was transpiring between us. But I can’t explain it more than that.
this being came to me and was like, look, this is all paraphrased, but this is the gist of the thing. Nobody’s mad.
and honestly, and you do not need to go back nothing will make you go back, you do not need to but then they said, if you do I promise you I promise you it gets so much better and whatever happened I made the decision to go back and then the next thing I was being woken up by my flatmate
And then anyway, I went down, had a cigarette with my flatmate and my flatmate didn’t know what going on. but we didn’t actually talk about it. Like, We just had a cigarette and then I went to bed.
And yeah, like I don’t know what happened. I don’t know how to explain that but that’s the gist of it and and honestly things didn’t get better for the next two years. didn’t, I was like that fucking thing that being lied to me I was like, yeah, like things just did not get better. But having said that over the last 10 years things have, I’ve got
much better for me, right? Like I’ve not had depression in 10 years, right? I’ve not had any of these thoughts or any of these things happen in like 10 years. As soon as I started meditating, getting off of like the drugs, getting off of like these types of things and bringing more more space into my life for joy and gratitude and all of these things. Like it’s impossible to be depressed at that point. Like once you start really doing that work.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (35:15)
Yeah.
Yeah, you fill it up with the goodness and then the darkness stays away. I can understand that I’ve got a resonant with you there when it comes to the early life with the difficulties and stuff and depression myself. had really dark sort of depression phases and I did attempt a few times myself, but I wasn’t successful
Andy (35:20)
Yay.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (35:39)
yeah, so it’s good that you discovered that path from that point, even though it didn’t happen instantly and you probably felt a little tricked ⁓ to come back to Earth.
Andy (35:48)
I didn’t necessarily
feel tricked, I felt like I didn’t understand, right? It wasn’t a feeling of being tricked, was just a feeling of maybe I imagined it, maybe that didn’t happen. It was more like doubting the idea that that happened at all, rather than feeling tricked by the entity, because I don’t believe I had an undeniable experience. I know I had that experience and I remember it.
But it’s also full of vagaries and full of 12 years distance between that moment and now. So I don’t know. I couldn’t tell you what happened and it definitely wasn’t undeniable.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (36:25)
of time. Yeah. Yeah.
Andy (36:32)
But there definitely was that remembrance in the next morning of like, chose this, I chose to come back. So whatever I do, like there’s not really an option. Like the concept of like ever trying that again, like has never even occurred to me. ⁓ Like since like, yeah, for about 10 years, purely because like life did start incrementally getting better.
And like what I feel like most people don’t know in this world is like, as I alluded to earlier, right, like if you believe something, it’s true, right? If you believe you’re lucky, it’s true. If you believe you’re depressed, it’s true.
So it’s like unwinding some of those programs is so important, right? Like if you’ve got a depression or whatever, like getting that, like that becomes like a big snowball. It just gets bigger and bigger every day. You create more thoughts that reinforce the belief and the belief becomes reality. And then, and that becomes reality. So you’re depressed and you’re lost and whatever. But like what I found was like, you can like melt that snowball and start another snowball, right? That snowball can just be of joy and like joy for life. Like nothing could
could take that away from me of just being like absolutely in awe of this experience we get to have as humans and I still have that like
Like I still have that in every moment of every day and then it’s just like magnified when I look up at the stars or I look at the sun or I look at the moon or I look at the ground or I look at the landscape or whatever I’m being or whatever I’m doing like I’m in full awe of this mad life that I get to live and that we all get to live and to me this is the biggest danger that’s…
been created in our western culture but in our culture globally as well is that that awe has been removed from most people’s lives it’s just like most people are just like the awe is not there the wonder is not there it’s gone and that was certainly my experience of growing up until I was about 30.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (38:31)
Yeah.
Well, I think when we’re all young and freshly born and walking around looking at everything with fresh eyes, that wonder is there, but it gets stolen by reality in some way and covered up with conditioning and social constructs and social expectations. And it sounds like you’ve found a great way to escape, which is becoming mindful of how beautiful everything really is.
Andy (39:02)
Yeah, it’s mad. It’s really mad and it never stops. like the awe never stops. And once you can get to this point in your life, like, I don’t know, I don’t like talking about it too much at this point because because I’ve reached the stage of my life where like my life is just a
CeeJay – Supernormalized (39:04)
Mm.
Andy (39:24)
unbelievable journey of wonder and synchronicity and and strange coincidences and things that just keep happening and taking me to like a place like they just things keep getting better and better and things could get like more interesting and more like the things that I’m bringing in and things that I’m wanting to bring more of into my life just keep happening so it’s it’s a beautiful thing and it’s a beautiful thing to experience and
And yeah, like if I had some goal in mind in the next, like if I could have in the next 10 years would just be to like, to maybe just talk about this stuff a bit more and a bit more, like give it a bit more breathing room. Because I understand that there’s so many people are lost and depressed and finding life very difficult and…
I found a magic key to change that. It doesn’t happen overnight, but it certainly has unlocked a ⁓ huge amount of abundance and beauty in my life that I cannot explain and I don’t dare to explain. I’m just eternally grateful. It came from changing that belief.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (40:40)
Do you have any pro tips for people that are going through the darkness themselves and need a little bit of light? Is there anything small that they can start with?
Andy (40:49)
I think darkness is necessary. think like ultimately in some ways it’s like things can’t just be like love and light. Like I said earlier about polarity or the pendulum. I think the biggest trouble that people don’t…
really realize is that whatever darkness are going through, whatever pain they’re going through, negative feelings or perceptually negative feelings that they may experience are there to teach them something, right? Like it’s there to teach. So you’re going to keep experiencing that until you’re open to learning, right? Until you’re open to listening to whatever that is there to teach you. And until you can do that, then like you’re going to keep re-experiencing it.
There’s so many patterns in my life that I keep re-experiencing I’m not immune to it myself, right? I don’t see it as darkness but I see certain things in my life, patterns emerging even at this point in my life Having done a lot of work and done a lot of spiritual exploration and all of this kind of stuff like things just keep happening until you listen until you’re like, okay, what’s going on here? Is this the…
Is this how I want to live my life? Do I want to feel this way? A good example being somebody sent me a pissy email yesterday and like two days ago, right? And like I read it and like I could feel myself like getting angry about it. ⁓ she didn’t listen to this thing, whatever. And this is, yeah, so like talking about small tips. It’s like.
being aware, noticing, like, that person is not making me angry. I’m making me angry, right? So I am choosing to interpret this interaction in a way that’s causing anger in me. I could choose many other emotions, right? I could choose, once I become conscious of the anger,
or that frustration to bring some levity into the situation, to bring some peace into the situation, to not be bothered by it, right? Like there’s so many choices that you can make and it’s until you realize that you’re in full control of the choices and of how, you can’t, okay, unless you’re some amazing mystic, right?
And even
you can’t control what goes on in this world. That’s not what you can do. But you can control how you react to it. That’s the one thing you can do, is you can control how you react to any given situation.
So that does bring up the idea that like yeah to your point like giving any advice I don’t like to give any advice because it assumes that I know what I’m doing when I’ve got no clue what I’m doing So first of all always caveat that with don’t listen to me I don’t have any fucking clue what’s going on but second of all like if you do care to understand like my own perception of things it’s like
I do believe that you have the control or you do have the ability to control how you choose to react to any given situation, whatever that situation is, is your choice.
And that’s Zen, right? That’s the whole philosophy of Zen. There’s no such thing as good or bad. It’s just, the thing that you thought was bad two years ago might have brought you to something amazing two years later. And that thing might bring you to something again, which is not so good. But it’s just a stance of life that you can exist in and ultimately comes down to being aware of that. So you can bring awareness into your daily life, whether that’s meditation, whether that’s just be…
Becoming the witness of like Watching what’s going on right watching from an attached perspective right like you’re not you’re not your personality. You’re not your body you are an Infinite being right like you’re an infinite being you’re an infinite being this watching this this participating and being this Moment right because this moment is all that exists right like so
If you can bring that awareness in, ⁓ will at some point give you the uncomfortable truth that you are creating that and nobody else is. If you’re upset, if you’re miserable, if you’re depressed, you’re creating it. And that can go one of two ways. It can be very difficult for people to hear and you can push that away. But it’s the truth.
And if you open up to that truth and take the other path, which is, if I’m creating it, what else could I create and how could I create a different scenario and own that concept that you are creating your own reality, then it can start to shift your…
how you choose to react to any given situation. But like I said, I’m not the best person to talk about this because somebody sent me an email yesterday and I was getting super angry. like I’m not exactly the practicer of what I’m preaching here.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (46:07)
I’m still going to call you Saint Andy anyway because you’re doing your best and that’s what counts. So Andy, YouTube channel Andy Joins Cults, you’ve got a couple of ⁓ playlists up there which people can go through and see your journeys into these cults. Do you have any plans for the next one that you’re going to be pursuing?
Andy (46:33)
Yeah, so I’ve spent the last seven months joining cults, so I’ve got a lot to edit. So the first few that are up there at the moment of time of release are Star Magic Healing, weird-ass reptilian cult that I joined in Egypt and started the whole thing off. Then I did Istha, which is like a sexual shamanic thing, like kind of like Tantra, but if you ask me a little bit darker and a little bit weirder and…
Definitely some culty vibes definitely some weird shit going on. I had a great time It was an interesting experience for me Great bunch of people like there’s certainly culty vibes there. There’s certainly things that are aspects of cult But I don’t take the reddit approach to cults, right? Like I don’t believe that everything that’s called a cult is a bad thing I think like that’s that word is being like charged in a way that like
that creates a negative reaction which is why I called my channel and the joints cults so like yeah like I am the jury’s out on ISTA like the videos are out you can make up your own mind I had a good time honestly I’ll be I’ll be I’ll bring in something that I’m not really spoken about to be honest I had another ISTA booked at this very moment I was going to be in Georgia to go to another one
And I cancelled it, I decided it wasn’t for me and yeah, honestly I don’t think I want to explore much more of that journey with this stuff, maybe I will another day but there’s like with any good upstanding cult there’s levels that you need to do and these things are… I don’t know, I need to get to the point where the channel is…
Like I can make it sustainable and I’m getting there like it’s it’s a it’s a journey not destination but but yeah like I definitely have some reservations on a staff or some reflection but yeah that was the last one that was out I did medicine festival which just got released and then I’m also doing I also did a upcoming one on this tattoo that I got I got a whole bunch of tattoos done as like um
as part of an experience with a cult which is interesting. And then beyond that, yeah, I’ve joined some crazy ass things in the last few months and I’m looking forward to releasing them. My highlight over the last six months was I went to a Joe Dispenza retreat and that’s been called quite cult-like and I had the best time of my life. I love that man.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (49:21)
Yeah, I’d love to go to one of his.
Andy (49:23)
The guy is amazing, the guy is the real deal. Personally I left that thing being like I am so glad to share a reality that Joe Dispenza also exists and like thinking about the man could bring me to tears and I don’t know like is it cult like? What he’s doing is beyond meditation. He’s doing something, doing like what he’s doing is combining
In my opinion, this is just my opinion, this is not how he would position it, but he’s combining deep, deep esoteric knowledge, deep spirituality, ceremonial magic, effectively, science. And he’s combining it all in a way that’s helping people, helping the world and helping people imagine a different reality than we’ve got. ⁓
and he does it all with a personality that’s just, you just wanna hug him. Like the guy’s amazing, he’s just so intelligent, but so humble, and so like, yeah. So that was like my absolute highlight, and I’ll be releasing that probably by like July, so.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (50:32)
I look forward to that one. Yeah, no, I really like Joy, Joe Dispenser. I call him Joy Dispenser myself because of the books that I’ve read and how it changed me as well and helped me as well. I did some of these meditations and like, wow, it fixed things. It just fixes things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andy (50:46)
Yeah, I do them every day. Yeah, I love them.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (50:49)
I can see you as a groundbreaker and I really appreciate the work you’re doing. It’s just totally cool. Watching that video last night, your summary of the Star Magic cult and that was really cool because my wife and I have had lot of experiences with entities and all sorts of things and it was just like, wow, this guy knows. He knows exactly what’s going on.
Andy (50:54)
Any more questions?
I mean, you say that, I know nothing. I don’t know what’s going on. it’s kind of like I was able to I was able to, yeah, figure out, figure out like how to express it in a way that made sense for me. But yeah, I don’t know what I’m doing. Like, and it took me a while to release that video because it wasn’t intentional. Like I had no truly no clue what I was getting into.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (51:34)
Yeah, right.
Andy (51:35)
And there was like a piece of me that was like felt a bit like I don’t really want to I don’t really want to invite that guy Jerry into my life. Right. Like I released a video like what can he do? Like I thought about it. It’s like, can he sue me? Like imagine going to court about being called a reptilian. That would be hilarious. Like if it’s like, what can you do? Like what can you actually do to me? And I couldn’t see a reason not to release it. And I’ve had some good feedback from people who’ve watched it, like who’ve
CeeJay – Supernormalized (51:59)
Yeah.
Andy (52:02)
had interactions with him and like some of it’s been very positive some of it’s been a bit suspicious but overall I feel like a positive that I released it.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (52:07)
Hmm.
Yeah, I’ve got to ask a question though. You said that one of your friends was still there in the video and you were reaching out to her to see how she was going. Did she okay and did everything work out?
Andy (52:23)
fine but she left the next day after I recorded that and so she was like she recorded she messaged me and was like like like Andy I’m not feeling safe here and I’m like what should I do and I just said get the fuck out there and she got out the next day and it was all good but yeah like very very clearly there was those it wasn’t like covert this is the thing like it was like super open nefarious stuff like it felt predatory it felt it felt
It felt willful and intentional and not good vibes. That’s just the way things are. I think I tend to look at it from the macro perspective. We are as humans here and we are living our lives as humans.
But like to a pig or to a cow who we butcher and murder like all the time, like we’re no better than like any reptilian entity that wants to feed on our fear, feed on our loosh, feed on our like negative feelings, right? Like there’s actually a very good reasonable cause for me to be like, you know what? Like they have just as much like right and almost…
need for existence as we do and like for us to like presume that they’re the bad guys even if like actually they’re not running about killing us like they might be feeding off energy they might be like they might be creating that energy they might be cultivating that amongst us but like that’s like how can we until we take a mirror and look at ourselves as like beings that are doing that same thing if you like if you I don’t know like
chicken or something like that. There’s something there which we’re not addressing that like this whole entire reality contains so much stuff, right? And we’re not innocent in that as humans and how we treat other beings and how we treat this planet and to moan about being treated in a negative light, in a negative way by beings who are manipulating us.
is kind of hypocritical in some ways. So it’s not like I look at it like I’m afraid of reptilians or I’m afraid of any beings who have negative intentions because actually if you think about it, us being incarnated as humans, that’s stuff we need to look at and deal with as ourselves. So it’s just ourselves. It’s just another version of ourselves.
Yeah, like that’s my perspective on it. don’t, I don’t, whilst I don’t wish more experiences with like somebody like Jerry, it was eye-opening and it helped me. Yeah, like it helped me explore things. I’d never read a David Icke book before, before I went on that thing. And I ended up like reading like five of his books and being very interested in this stuff. But, but also cautionary in the sense that like I…
And you can keep all this in if it’s interesting, by the way. I know you’re still recording. But I think I’ve never read a David Icke book until that. yeah, his books are fascinating. But there’s also, I would also tread with caution there in the sense that what you consume, the media you consume, the type of content you consume.
you’ll just see more of that in your reality, right? So if you want to read about lizards and you want to like, or reptilians, if you want to like bring more and more of that into your consciousness, there’s a likelihood that you will bring more of that into your reality. So there’s a balance to be found there. Like if you want to bring more of that into your reality, then do you want to read more about it? Because quite honestly, I think I could recommend a hundred other books that would be more enriching than that.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (56:20)
Hmm.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, it’s not necessary really. And it’s better to focus on the positives and the expansion of, what would you call it, like a connection to spirit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just thinking back to how that Jerry exposed himself to you, obviously you never had an experience of actually seeing that before. Did you believe that was even possible before that moment?
Andy (56:29)
the No.
consciousness.
Exactly.
Never never never And
I barely believed it was possible as I was doing the documentary but I Know what I saw I know what I experienced and they know that it was done in a way that was I Think it was like I think I don’t know. I don’t like to I don’t like to project right I don’t know I don’t like to tell you that I know what Jerry was thinking or I know his intentions because I don’t but like it felt
Like it didn’t feel like he was doing it to scare me. It almost felt like he was revealing it in a way that was like I am more powerful than you. Right? Like that was like, that was the vibe I got, but like, like you can have a bit of this power if you like, if you’re interested, right? Like it’s here for you and blah, blah, blah. But I’m not a power seeker. Like it’s not like in my, in my realm of interest to be, to, to
to be falling for that, that’s a trap immediately. he kind of just assumed maybe too much about me in order to show me that. Because yeah, was very clear that that was, I’ve had Rapeh before and stuff like that, but that wasn’t just your average Rapeh. Yeah, yeah, that was some very, very clearly designed to…
CeeJay – Supernormalized (58:09)
never does that. Yeah.
Andy (58:17)
to help me see something or to show me something that was perhaps hidden. But I don’t know. I know what I shared on the documentary and I know how I integrate the experience now, but I still couldn’t tell you for sure that that’s exactly what I saw, that I know his intentions, that what I saw was real. I’d also had a gram and a half or two grams of mushrooms, probably closer to a gram and a half, but like…
that in itself, like that in itself, regardless of how many mushroom trips I’ve had, which is many, many, many, and none of them have been anything like that, regardless of how many psychedelics I’ve ever used, regardless of that, and regardless of never having an experience even close to that, it still kind of will take the…
credibility of my story for some people and that’s okay like I can’t do anything about that all I can do is like this is what happened this is my experience if you think it’s credible great if you don’t then I’m not I’m not looking to be like believe me this happened because
CeeJay – Supernormalized (59:27)
Yeah, no,
it’s a matter of fact for you.
Andy (59:31)
It’s a matter of experience for me. It’s a matter of my own perception of reality for me. I don’t believe in fact or truth. don’t actually believe that the concept of truth is… I don’t believe that we have a conception of truth, right? Like as soon as you put language to something, it’s not true. It’s perception, right? So, don’t… Is it my truth in this body, in this reality time space?
existence that I experience something that I choose to interpret as a reptilian encounter, yeah maybe but it’s not like I’m not gonna die on that hill like if it’s not then it’s not and if it is then it is and it’s not really up to me to make that decision if people want to choose to believe me then that’s great but if they don’t then that’s also great like I’m not interested in pushing my version of the truth
because that’s just my version of the truth. All I can do is share my experience and allow people to interpret that and come to some shared understanding of what truth is. Do I believe reptilians exist? Probably yeah. Do I believe I saw one? Probably yeah. But do I believe other people need to believe me? No, absolutely not. In fact, please don’t believe me. Please go out and figure out if this is actually reality or not for you because that’s a better, that’ll give you a better indication of.
or a better understanding of your interaction with this reality than I could ever give anybody.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (1:01:09)
Yeah, yeah. It does. Yeah, no, that makes great sense. It’s like have your experience because your experience is yours.
Andy (1:01:09)
If that makes sense. I just don’t like to…
Exactly, it’s the only one you’re gonna get, so…
CeeJay – Supernormalized (1:01:20)
Excellent. Thank you so much, Andy. I look forward to seeing what comes out next. And I’m going to go through all of your YouTube channel.
Andy (1:01:22)
My pleasure.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (1:01:30)
It’s gonna be great. I know it is. Because the way you present is so honest and clear.
Andy (1:01:35)
Thanks very much, I’ve worked hard on that. for some reason I’ve got that ability. But yeah, I appreciate that. It’s very much like, I’m not Mr. YouTube. I’m not out here making like, trying to be like scandalous or whatever. But I feel like I’m just gonna be my, I can only be myself. can’t be somebody, I can’t be like, I’m not interested in the algorithm. I’m not interested in being whatever. I’m just like, if I can be myself and share these experiences, then great.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (1:02:06)
Okay, all right. Okay, thank you very much again. yeah, I’ll catch up with you again probably in about a year and we’ll see what we’re up to and what else has happened. That’d be really cool.
Andy (1:02:07)
Next slide.
Wonderful.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (1:02:17)
So Andy, we’ve come to the end of the podcast and where would you like to point people to find out more about you?
Andy (1:02:24)
If you Google AndyJoinsCults, that’s my name on all the stuff on the TikTok, on the Instagram, on the YouTube. that’ll be rare. I do it also on Spotify. I prefer to call what I’m doing like podgumentaries. So it means that I can justify putting up on Spotify because like I think there’s an element to what Spotify are doing, particularly in the podcast and like vlog, like expansion that’s a bit more…
This is a bit less overwhelming than YouTube. YouTube just has everything, whereas I’m kind of structuring a documentary, but like a podcast of a documentary. So yeah, I prefer people, you have Spotify, to go there, ⁓ because it’s just like there’s a lot less noise on Spotify. YouTube to me, as a user and as a, ⁓ I guess a creator, there’s just a lot of, just too much noise. It’s just.
Everything and I don’t I don’t believe that the algorithm will ever promote this type of content so like that would probably be like where I Maybe well, but but I’m not getting a lot of I’m not getting a lot of like feeling of like consistency on YouTube some of my YouTube videos have like got 10,000 views and like some of them have got like 23 and like the ones like was were released afterwards so there’s not like I’m not seeing like a
sensible trajectory on how my videos are promoted on YouTube so who knows but Spotify Instagram TikTok ⁓ I don’t know X or anything but Andy joins cults
CeeJay – Supernormalized (1:03:55)
Yeah. ⁓
Okay.
All
right, okay, I’ll put those links down in the show notes and I’ll thank you so much for coming on and sharing so openly of your experiences and your understanding and perspective on the world and all power to you Andy, you’re exposing the really interesting things.
Andy (1:04:14)
on this.
very much so are you. I’m really keen to go through some of the other super normalized podcasts. I think you’re also doing amazing work and what you’re talking about is super interesting and the types of content you’re bringing up is really good and you do it in fun way and almost tongue in cheek as well. there’s a really good balance there between what people are talking about and how you’re
you give space for that so yeah like I’m gonna keep listening to you so it be really great to meet you as well.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (1:04:55)
Yeah, good to you too. Thank you so much. I’ll just say goodbye to listeners.
I don’t know what to say. That was totally amazing. Thank you, Andy, for coming on the show. I appreciate it fully. Now, look, if you’ve enjoyed today’s show, make sure you like and subscribe and also reach out to Andy and go into his YouTube. Andy joins Colts, one word. That should find it or even just search Andy joins Colts anywhere on the internet and you’ll find Andy and watch. It’s amazing. He’s a really good presenter and
the clarity in his understanding and his presentation and the honesty and groundedness comes through so clearly as you even heard in this episode. just, he’s doing some great work here. So thank you so much for listening until next episode. It’s bye for now.
