CeeJay Barnaby sits down with filmmaker, paleontology researcher, and fifth degree Aikido Black Belt Ronald C. Meyer, alongside co-author Mark Reeder . Together, they discuss the deep connection between Bigfoot, UAP sightings, and non-dual consciousness . Ron shares how childhood encounters with nature shifted his perception of identity, leading to a lifetime studying anomalous events through an objective lens .
Mark brings a rich historical focus to their collaborative books, examining high strangeness cases from Bradshaw Ranch to the mysterious ties between cryptids and anomalous phenomena . They discuss the CE-6 protocol, direct contact, and the ways unexplainable occurrences mirror Eastern mystical traditions . Listeners are invited to see how maintaining neutral curiosity lets direct experiences speak for themselves without forced interpretation.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3499084/
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Chapters
0:00 Introduction to Ron Meyer and Mark Reeder
1:38 Childhood Oneness and Non Dual Perception
23:29 Educational Media Production
26:13 Research on Bigfoot and Paranormal Books
30:43 Eastern Spiritual Paths and CE 6 Protocol
51:34 Shared Presence and Contact Manifestations
58:12 Finding Books and Connecting with Authors
1:01:05 Host Reflections on Consciousness and Contact
Transcript
CeeJay (00:00)
On this episode I talk with Ronald C. Meyer, a filmmaker, author, paleontology researcher, behavioral cybernetics researcher, and fifth degree Aikido Black Belt. Ron’s work brings together evidence, personal experience, storytelling and spiritual inquiry through films and books about Bigfoot,
UFOs, the afterlife, non-dual awareness, and possible realities beyond ordinary perception. Ron is joined by his co-author co-author, Mark Reeder, who worked with Ron on the book Bigfoot Singularity, which dives in on the phenomenon from many angles. Mark lives in Boulder, Colorado, where he has worked as a writer and associate producer for the video production company Center Communications. His educational programs, Hispanic Achievement in America and Women’s Achievement in America, have appeared on PBS National Television.
He also writes sci-fi and fantasy for youth, YA and adults. he’s kicked around the universe long enough to have more than a few bumps and bruises and roughed up and battered like his hat. He’s looking forward the the exit, which is going to be nice and natural. So stay with us for Ron and Mark’s accounts of their experiences. Ron’s
Fossil discoveries, his work in biofeedback, his encounters with the void and out-of-body experiences, and practical lessons drawn from Aikido and Flow practice. Listen through to hear how he separates direct experience from interpretation, how he approaches extraordinary claims, and what his journey may offer anyone questioning consciousness, identity, and the nature of reality. With all that, welcome Ron and Mark to Super Normalized.
ron meyer (01:34)
To be here in the
Mark Reeder (01:35)
Good to be here.
ron meyer (01:36)
United States.
CeeJay (01:38)
So where should we start? I mean, Ron, you had some wild childhood experiences. Can you describe the powerful experience of oneness with nature at the age of ten? What happened there and how did that create a different understanding about your you and your relation to life at the time?
ron meyer (01:56)
So y my interpretation of a non dual experience is the self disappears, the round thing, and there’s just the world. From the outside somebody watching when I’m in that state w probably wouldn’t notice anything different, except everything was kinda working out.
And I was invited on my on my birthday by a neighbor of somebody else who was collecting snakes. He said, I’m gonna take you to this ravine in this small paper mill town where I grew up. It was a beautiful May day and he was kind of a strange strange guy. Everybody said he was strange. K kinda impish, you know. And so we went to the ravine, got on our bikes, you know, went down there and all of a sudden
There was just the world and no me. And that lasted for quite a while. And of course I never told anybody about it because nobody would have believed me and I really couldn’t articulate it. But I’ve had many of those since. Every one spontaneous. there’s no pattern that I can see. I have probably the most peculiar one I ever had was I think Mark was there, we were filming a a series on the American sniper.
And we were filming a couple of snipers that had come back from Afghanistan, Marines. And
CeeJay (03:23)
Mm.
ron meyer (03:23)
I flipped into that state. And in i in that state, it’s like the flow state. Everything works perfectly. And and it did work perfectly. Everything worked out on the chute. We did scenarios of killing bad guys and that sort of stuff. You were there, Mark, at that time, right? And I don’t think you noticed anything bizarre about me when I was
in that state. other times
Mark Reeder (03:49)
Other than the fact
that other than the fact that everything you did moved with a fluidity that I found uncommon.
ron meyer (04:00)
So that’s one example. Another time, I was at a it was an evening baseball game at a little podunk town in Wyoming. No reason for that. And another one occurred when I was filming thing for public television here on Steinbeck’s journey down the Baja and I was on we were on the boat cruising down there and it j I just slipped into it and it was beautiful.
That’s just giving you
CeeJay (04:28)
That’s cool.
ron meyer (04:28)
a f an example of a few of these states. And the self
CeeJay (04:31)
Mm.
ron meyer (04:32)
is just gone.
CeeJay (04:33)
Mm. How did that experience shape the way you viewed nature, identity, and the boundaries between yourself and the world?
ron meyer (04:48)
Well, it disrupts the the ordinary understanding of of that there’s this difference that somehow there’s me, the self thing, observing stuff, you know, acting. And there’s the world out there that’s being acted upon. And it would suggest that that boundary is false. That that distinction is not real.
And I fall back on that periodically. when I start doing philosophicums, I remember that that’s really the case, that there’s most of the boundaries that we experience are all artificial.
CeeJay (05:28)
Mm.
ron meyer (05:29)
Including the one between you and me and Mark. It’s not real. We all
CeeJay (05:34)
Yeah.
ron meyer (05:34)
have kind of the same divine essence or soul or godlike thing, whatever you want to call it. Does that help?
CeeJay (05:42)
Well, from a meta
perspective, we’re like basically just talking to ourselves.
ron meyer (05:47)
Pardon?
CeeJay (05:47)
From a meta perspective, we’re all talking to ourselves right now, so
ron meyer (05:51)
Why not?
Much more interesting.
Mark Reeder (05:54)
We’re telling stories
about ourselves. Yeah.
CeeJay (05:56)
Telling stories. That’s it.
what would you say to someone who has had a profound experience but feels unsure on how to interpret it or how to share it?
ron meyer (06:11)
First first of all, they should be confident that many people have had these experiences and that, you know, it’s excellent that you had that experience. you gotta find a community to express it in. if if you’re in let’s say some religious context, I know somebody who had c kind of experience like that and called for an exorcism, you know, so you gotta be careful.
CeeJay (06:38)
Exactly.
ron meyer (06:38)
So
so many so many kids have these kinds of experiences. They tell their parents or somebody and, you know, they’re ridiculed or, you know, told they’re crazy or whatever. And instead of a life motivating situation it’s just the opposite. It kinda destroys them. So it’s time that everybody starts accepting these things are okay. And you’re not
CeeJay (07:04)
Mm-hmm.
ron meyer (07:04)
crazy if you have
CeeJay (07:06)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you listen to the podcast, you’ll hear that there’s a lot of people that have been through these experiences and have learned to shutter out the people that don’t understand for one thing, so they could actually live a normal life. So yeah, I can understand that.
Mark Reeder (07:19)
I think I think it’s
CJ, but I think it’s also important for people to understand that these experiences are not just a 20th or 21st century phenomena phenomenon. They they go back through history. Moses, Christ, Mohammed. you go into the 19th century, you have Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism here in the United States. You have Edgar Case in the 20th century. So
There are examples of individuals who have profound non-dual experiences or have profound connections to something larger than themselves, which a paranormal experience of some kind, which alters their perception of who they are in the world as and how they can relate to it. And in the case of, say, someone like St. Francis of Assisi.
He has a dream that Christ is telling him to build his church. And so he spends lifetime building the church, building churches. Saint Martin of Tours saw a beggar who he was convinced was the embodiment of Christ, and he tears his cloak in half, gives half of it to the beggar, and he becomes a a person who espouses.
the the the spirituality of Christ. from being a Roman soldier the who the Roman soldiers are known for their brutality, he becomes a advocate for this spirituality. So I think if individuals can understand that their experiences are, as Ron stated, not are shared by many people in the 21st century, there is also a long lineage of
of these experiences starting thousands and thousands of years ago.
CeeJay (09:22)
Mm. Yeah. Yeah. It just seems that societal conditioning over time has been framed up to almost shun these experiences in some ways to be able to keep control and to keep everyone focused on making the money to keep everyone in power. So you know.
Mark Reeder (09:40)
That
the there is that. And then sometimes people’s experiences are so frightening, especially when you’re a young child, that we
CeeJay (09:49)
Yeah. Mm.
Mark Reeder (09:50)
suppress them or repress them, whatever word you want to use. I’m my own personal experience is that I was very sick when I was six years old with the mumps. In fact, I was so sick I actually saw my death every night for a week. My mom was literally in the bed with me, keeping me
From, I don’t know, dying, I guess. How I I I her presence really helped steady me. On the seventh night, I saw that I was going to live and I I came out of this experience and my mom was there and I woke her up and said, Mom, I’m going to live. I’m going to be okay. But that experience so frightened me that for 60 some years I repressed it. I I told it sometimes as a story, you know, like, I made my mom scared when I was a little kid.
But it wasn’t until Ron, and Ron has been my mentor in a lot of different things, especially in writing, but also in this journey toward understanding the self through paranormal or supernatural phenomenon phenomena.
CeeJay (10:54)
Mm.
Mark Reeder (10:55)
It wasn’t until he started working with me on that that I realized things that happened to me when I was a very young child and as I was growing up had a significant impact on me. And I just simply repressed the experiences.
Because they had so frightened me.
CeeJay (11:12)
Mm. Yeah, yeah. They can be pretty intense when you’re a child. I I had a lot of contact with spirits when I was very young and some of them weren’t weren’t too friendly. So it was
Mark Reeder (11:22)
Mm.
CeeJay (11:22)
yeah, it just just a part of the, you know, the territory. I mean, as it is in this world, not everyone’s nice. So you know, in the spirit worlds the same thing happens. Mm. Yeah. So
Mark Reeder (11:33)
Yeah.
CeeJay (11:35)
Ron, I was gonna ask you about your
exploration of fossils evolution in deep time, you be you ban you actually began collecting foss fossils as a young person. What first captured your imagination about them?
ron meyer (11:50)
Look
cool.
CeeJay (11:51)
Yeah.
ron meyer (11:53)
So I I grew up in a place in the Midwest where all the fossils were very old time wise. When when there was nothing on land, just animals in in the sea, the early periods of life.
And that’s I’ve always collected continuously in that section of time, the early time when when everything was becoming, you know, the an all the forms of life, animal life were c were shaping. And and so I just thought they were really cool. And, you know, their design was beautiful. Mostly they were shells, ’cause most of the time what preserves are the hard parts. You know, like when you find dinosaurs you find their skeletons, right?
you don’t find their soft tissue. And so the same thing w is true when you go back, you know, ha half a million ye five hundred million years or four hundred and fifty million years. You’re finding all only the hard parts and s and not ever every like a worm, you know, we’re our origin as vertebrates is is a is a worm like creature, you know, we’re worms. Eventually we got teeth and now here we are.
So so in the beginning it was j he was just like finding treasures, you know. The
CeeJay (13:14)
Mm-hmm.
ron meyer (13:14)
and we find them in these quarries. And I know there are some really famous fossil sites in Australia, particularly for the the animals that preceded the Great Cambrian explosion, the Ediacharin. Did you know that?
CeeJay (13:28)
Mm. No.
ron meyer (13:30)
The really earliest life forms are are the famous spot in in in Australia.
So eventually my friend and I who had been collecting since we were kids discovered probably the second site where amongst these early life forms in the sea the soft parts were preserved, not just the hard parts.
CeeJay (13:54)
Yeah, right.
ron meyer (13:55)
And and so for the first time or second time they get a look at the whole ecosystem. And
CeeJay (14:01)
Mm-hmm.
ron meyer (14:04)
that was a big boon to me collecting.
And following that, we discovered another one of those sites and we collected two others. So that was kind of my contribution and in the process. we you know, papers were written describing the the ecosystem and the discovery and and certain species were identified and I’m co author on some of those and
CeeJay (14:33)
Mm.
ron meyer (14:34)
And it was it’s been a beautiful hobby that I’ve had all my life. And it’s a way of
CeeJay (14:38)
Mm. Yeah.
ron meyer (14:40)
getting out in the wilderness and poking around and seeing things you wouldn’t see all the time.
CeeJay (14:45)
Mm. Well, I see a lot of the production you’ve done,
video and media content is based around your exploration of a lot of the parks in the US. And I looked and went, wow, you’ve really dived deep on most of them by the looks of it.
ron meyer (15:04)
Yeah, it was I pretty much did visited every park and film and told this po every park filmed it and told the story of it. In fact
CeeJay (15:14)
That’s cool.
ron meyer (15:15)
I the way I divided up the the structure of the programs was adopted by the Park Service ’cause it seemed to work nicely.
CeeJay (15:24)
Mm.
ron meyer (15:25)
Have you been to the US?
CeeJay (15:27)
I have several times, mostly to the west coast and I went to Burning Man one time, so I had to experience that.
ron meyer (15:35)
Yes.
So our park system is decided divided into basically three parts. There’s the national parks, which are the big ones like the Everglades, Grand Canyon, ones that one went Yellowstone. And then there are these things called monuments. And the presidents are allowed to take a site and and call it a monument and then it becomes part of the the park system.
And there are more of those than there are, and then there are national historic sites. And of course they’re preserving history. And they’re all part of the greater park system in the United States. So there’s a lot of places you can go. My my greatest biggest regret is that we didn’t have drones when I was doing this. It would have been so cool to get those big aerial shells. But but
CeeJay (16:25)
Yeah, the fly ever shots. Yeah.
ron meyer (16:28)
you know, in filming we had, you know, special privileges.
to see things and do things that most people don’t get to do. Like fly a plane
CeeJay (16:35)
Excellent.
ron meyer (16:35)
over the Grand Prismatic in Yellowstone, which is mind blowing.
CeeJay (16:40)
Mm. Did you see anything unusual that you didn’t put into your programs?
ron meyer (16:48)
Did I? Mean besides squabbles between park people?
CeeJay (16:54)
No. I mean ’cause you talk about Bigfoot, I mean, did you see anything?
ron meyer (16:59)
No,
there was no Bigfoot. I didn’t even know what they were at the time I was doing these. Farthest thing
CeeJay (17:03)
okay.
ron meyer (17:04)
from my imagination. But you know, there’s a hierarchy in the park system, you know, as any bureaucracy and who gets to speak on camera’s a big deal. You know, one one does you know, it’s just that kind of stuff.
CeeJay (17:21)
So did some early work with biofeedback and human potential. now tell us about human century systems and the development of the at the University of Wisconsin Sobonetic Lab. What were you actually investigating there?
ron meyer (17:39)
Me personally or the lab itself.
CeeJay (17:42)
okay. Yeah.
ron meyer (17:43)
Pardon?
CeeJay (17:43)
Well you you personally, what were you ex experiencing there with biofeedback?
ron meyer (17:47)
My
my my project was so th you know what biofeedback is or homeostatic systems. You
CeeJay (17:56)
Yeah.
ron meyer (17:56)
know, d y we have a thermostat in here in Colorado and it’s connected to something that cools, brings cool air or brings hot air in, you know, to keep the so it’s this feedback system that keeps c going back and forth. And so
The h the one of the th hypotheses behind b cybernetics is that this is almost the way of life all the time. I talk to you, that changes you, you have a different thought. Then I that changes how I go the next time. all animals operate that way, they’re causative agents, you know. It’s like a communication that keeps going all the time.
CeeJay (18:39)
Mm.
ron meyer (18:41)
but in order to do that well as a human being you got to
track the environment, right, to interact with it.
You know, if I wave my hand
CeeJay (18:50)
Mm. Yeah.
ron meyer (18:51)
like this and you know, you can’t follow like this. right now I see your head’s not turning. But you
CeeJay (18:58)
Mm.
ron meyer (18:58)
could track it, right, but turning your head with it. Can you do that?
CeeJay (19:01)
Mm.
I I can pretend to.
ron meyer (19:05)
Yeah, go. Yeah,
so so the my project was initially children learn to do c smooth creative movements. You know, you you can’t be you know a baby’s jerky and all that. But
CeeJay (19:21)
Yeah.
ron meyer (19:22)
eventually they can smooth move and then once you control your head you can track, you know, with and you get that from holding on to somebody your mama’s arm. You’re moving with it. That’s how you track with.
Tactile. And the question I was exploring was, what age does this tracking behavior switch from tactile to vision? And occurs
CeeJay (19:47)
Okay.
ron meyer (19:47)
about six years old.
CeeJay (19:50)
right.
ron meyer (19:51)
And I was able to d design equipment to to demonstrate that. So because of our bilateral symmetry, I can do this and I can do this, you know, one hand like this and another hand. But if I try and do that with both hands, I can’t can’t do it. They fall into the symmetry going together. Can’t break it. A piano player can, of course. And so like a five year old, so I had to get piano
Well, when you’re working in a university you can get students ’cause they get extra credit. And I had these two wands and I would have to get somebody individually to do the the movements to see. So like a four year old could track both hands that are going crazy from two different people. You understand what I’m saying? Person right here doing this, another person doing crazy shit. And these four year olds can just follow along perfectly.
Take a s take a seven year old and their hands c fall off the the other person’s hand immediately.
CeeJay (20:54)
Yeah, right. Hm. Okay.
ron meyer (20:56)
And so this is important in terms of you know, human development. If you don’t if you fall behind, you know, on the basic tactile thing, you’re gonna have trouble all your life because it’s hard to correct unless you’re aware of it. At the time th this was not conventional wisdom. You know, what ruled psychology at that time and development was behaviorism, Skinner. Everything is behavior and it’s all predetermined.
CeeJay (21:26)
Mm.
ron meyer (21:27)
Should tell you the joke we made about that at the time? Huh? Can I do it?
CeeJay (21:30)
Yeah, go on. Yeah, do it.
ron meyer (21:34)
Okay, so two behaviors, you know, just had sex. And one turns over. I could see it was great for you, honey. How was it for me?
Mark Reeder (21:45)
Ha ha ha.
CeeJay (21:50)
Mm-hmm.
So your diving into science eventually led to filmmaking as well, and you went into film production and later acquired the center communications. What caused you to go into that major change of direction?
ron meyer (22:10)
mean why did I leave research and s and start making doing media?
CeeJay (22:14)
Yeah. Yeah.
ron meyer (22:17)
Well I had this thought or at least I made it up that I had this thought. I can’t I’m not quite sure. Is that well you write up a paper, we I wrote up some paper, you know about what I just told you. You know, with the and of course the the person who’s running the lab is always the one that’s got his name at the top. And
And maybe, you know, twenty people will read it. And then somebody came down and said, We I was at we was starting s Wisconsin Public Television and Radio. Did anybody have any projects? We we need some projects. Came down to the lab. And I thought, Well, that’d be cool, you mean like maybe a hundred thousand people will see what I do and do a peer review? That sounds good. And so gradually I shifted into that.
And I just knew how media was done. And I could explain why that’s the case. It’s not that I’m a savant, but it was kinda comes from the kind of philosophical work I had done earlier, college years. That I worked from the top out, from the bottom up, top down
CeeJay (23:28)
Mm.
ron meyer (23:29)
not bottom up. And so it became my career. First through public television and radio and then when cable arose I moved to Boulder where I’m right now.
’cause it was a spiritual center and it was cool to play play in the big leagues for a little while.
CeeJay (23:47)
Yes. Yeah, I I can see how that reach is a better way to make change. So turning you more into a bigger change agent.
ron meyer (23:59)
Yeah, I mean bac in the beginning you had VHS and you could be you know, you could make some money there, but when D V Ds came for the short run it was it was tremendous. one of the first projects we did on D V D was on the the Great Indian Wars. There were the in there’s the central plains in the country and a number of Native American tribes developed horses and they battled the US Army and
Mark and I worked on that and I mean that’s made me so much money it’s unbelievable.
CeeJay (24:35)
That’s cool. Mm.
ron meyer (24:38)
Does that answer your question?
Mark Reeder (24:38)
One of the interesting
thing, well, one of the interesting things about that Great American Indian Wars was Ron’s approach wasn’t about having a bias one way or other the other about it, whether they were good or bad, just a clear historical approach that looked at the the wholeness of what’s happening in that time. And the result was that it became a bestseller because
And I I I like to think of it this way, it became a bestseller because critics on both sides said, this is a terrible thing because it’s not telling my point of view. And I think the Americans consumers
CeeJay (25:20)
Yeah, right.
Mark Reeder (25:21)
said, Well, this is great. It’s not telling one particular point of view. It’s balanced. And that’s
CeeJay (25:27)
Mm.
Mark Reeder (25:28)
one of the things that in working for Ron, he’s been my mentor in writing for years now.
One of the things I’ve learned is that when you’re doing an educational video or a documentary, unless you’re specifically contracted to show a particular point of view, if you want to understand a subject, you’re balanced in it. You don’t come at it with a severe bias one way or the other, but you’re looking at it and trying to develop a
Not only rapport with the subject matter, but a rapport with the audience that speaks to as many people as possible.
CeeJay (26:05)
Hm. That makes complete sense to me. I mean, it’s having that point of neutrality it lets people make their own decisions.
Mark Reeder (26:13)
Yes. And that that worked through the three books now that we’ve done on paranormal. Ron brought me into his he he was doing movies on the paranormal on on Bigfoot UAPs and things. He brought me in to help him write a few of the books, mostly because of my my background is in history, masters in history from the University of Cincinnati.
And so I’m helping him with the historical research and helping him with the writing. And so looking at something like a paranormal experience that a person has because they spotted a a Bigfoot, for example, what they consider to be they have a Bigfoot experience, for example, instead of saying, this couldn’t possibly happen, or saying, my gosh, this is the end of days because we’re
We’re all seeing Bigfoot. Ron looked at and said, What does this experience really mean for the individual? So exploring that allowed us to
look at these phenomena from a wider lens. And it led to something eventually which Ron called the CE six protocol, which was a way of looking at how these paranormal phenomena present themselves. And I’ll let Ron talk about that because to me, the CE six protocol, which has been in the last year, in the the last year,
has really opened up what it means to have these paranormal experiences.
Ron, you’re on.
ron meyer (28:02)
Yeah, am I now?
Mark Reeder (28:04)
Ha ha ha.
ron meyer (28:06)
So about ten years ago when I was hired to do my first experiencer type program series on Bigfoot, I noticed that I did a lot of interviews with people who had experiences visual probably mostly, where strange things happen, they disappear before their eyes. They were all kinda like that.
could never quite capture it totally. There’s never been besides the Patty movie, a real good capture on a trail cam or anything else of Bigfoot. And so, and I had always been interested in science fiction and and you know UFOs and that kind of stuff. And I thought
Is there is there a connection between the phenomena of Bigfoot and the phenomena of UAPs? ‘Cause it it was a it was about the time that the some of these things were disclosed, like the tic tacs, you know what they are? With them these Navy pilots recorded these things doing things physically
CeeJay (29:24)
Yeah.
ron meyer (29:24)
that are impossible by our consensus science anyhow?
CeeJay (29:29)
Yes.
ron meyer (29:30)
And
so I did this thing called the Bigfoot Alien Connection Reveal. And I kinda did a side by side comparison and it’s been an enormous success. It really began the process for many people of saying, I’ve had these experiences and it’s cool which was our main purpose. We talked about that earlier. It’s
okay
CeeJay (29:50)
Mm.
ron meyer (29:51)
to have A lot of people are having Join the crowd.
CeeJay (29:55)
Yes. Yeah, exactly.
ron meyer (29:57)
But I also had, you know, a background of exploring the traditional spiritual paths of the East in in particular. ‘Cause I could, ’cause there’s a lot of cachet with being a media producer. You can talk to anybody. I’ve interviewed
CeeJay (30:12)
Yeah, right. Cool.
ron meyer (30:14)
Nobel Prize winners and they’re asking me, Is this tie okay? Should I get a different shirt? you know? That’s the kind of power the s you know, the producer of something media has, you know, it’s
Mark Reeder (30:25)
Yeah.
ron meyer (30:26)
It’s kinda like, you know, immortality or something like that. So I’ve always used that as my tool of investigation. It works
CeeJay (30:33)
Mm-hmm.
ron meyer (30:33)
nicely. Where was I going with this now? What was I talking about?
Mark Reeder (30:40)
Well, we’re heading toward the C E six protocol.
CeeJay (30:42)
Yes.
ron meyer (30:43)
Yes, yes, yes. And so it occurred to me that these these kinds of experiences in the East, you know, enlightenment, Kencho, these sort of things, these mystical experiences, maybe near death experiences. What have they got to do with contact experiences? Seeing UAP or a Bigfoot? They seem very different, don’t they? I mean, they all involve humans in a
CeeJay (31:11)
Mm.
ron meyer (31:11)
way.
CeeJay (31:12)
Mm-hmm.
I don’t know, from my own experiences, I wouldn’t say that they’re much different. It’s it’s the phenomenon showing different faces.
ron meyer (31:23)
Okay, I like that. So Jacques Vellet, you know who he is?
CeeJay (31:29)
Yes.
ron meyer (31:30)
He has his control hypotheses, control system hypotheses. That there’s
CeeJay (31:33)
Hmm. Yeah, I know about that.
ron meyer (31:36)
this presence that has the ability to masquerade as a UAP or a Bigfoot and other
CeeJay (31:43)
That’s right.
ron meyer (31:44)
and produce mystical experiences.
CeeJay (31:47)
Yes.
ron meyer (31:47)
The presence, not Jacques himself.
And so I designed the C E six protocol to prov provide evidence for or against his hypotheses. And I’ve done seven of now. And it’s amazing h how the presence has produced stuff that’s impossible. Which is what it does,
CeeJay (32:13)
Right.
ron meyer (32:14)
it keeps the mystery alive.
CeeJay (32:16)
What examples of things that have been produced with the C six protocol?
ron meyer (32:23)
So the first one we did I don’t know, do you know what Bigfoot Chatter is, Rod Moorhead?
CeeJay (32:29)
Yeah. Yep.
ron meyer (32:30)
We recorded stuff like that. The chant I use is A E I O, which are the basic vowels. It goes way back.
CeeJay (32:39)
Yes.
ron meyer (32:40)
And it’s probably the beginning of proto language. We got proto language recorded during the protocol. We got a beat.
a loud beat like bump up bump ’cause one of the hypotheses is that music is auto regressive like language, like the L L Ms. That’s how it’s a statistical relationship between the notes, the words. That makes everything go. There’s no grammar syntax, it’s just that
CeeJay (33:12)
Mm.
ron meyer (33:13)
in the process in like the words that are following now are are generated by my maybe by my L L
operating in yours too. But you know, you can see that they’re kinda like prompts.
CeeJay (33:25)
Yeah. Yeah.
ron meyer (33:28)
we had this really b unusual smell, sweet, kinda sweet and awful, which is characteriz k a lot of Bigfoot situations. We had like seventeen or eighteen subsonic pulses that we didn’t re hear, you know, but people felt in some sense, you know, it’s a different kind of thing. A couple of our things like
A REM pod, you know, people communicate it, capture something on the SLS. So we got a lot of stuff that said, Here’s here’s lots of ways I can masquerade as a Bigfoot. But not really review itself.
CeeJay (34:05)
Mm. Interesting.
ron meyer (34:07)
Huh?
CeeJay (34:08)
Yeah. That’s very interesting. I was going to ask you then, how can people learn that protocol and and practice it?
ron meyer (34:14)
I’ll buy our book and watch the movie.
CeeJay (34:16)
Yeah. Okay. Which book, which movie?
ron meyer (34:23)
huh? Didn’t I send you a link
CeeJay (34:24)
Which book and which movie?
ron meyer (34:25)
or something? I don’t know. A anyhow it’s
Mark Reeder (34:29)
The book is
the book is The High Strangeness of Bigfoot, which was released
ron meyer (34:34)
And so was the movie.
Mark Reeder (34:35)
earlier, released earlier this year in the in the spring. And in that we look specifically at the historical the historical background of human language and how it has led to humans being the
Only species that tell stories. Now, all species communicate, whether you’re a talking raven in the Tower of London or you’re a raccoon or a squirrel, all species communicate. But humans are the only species that actually tell stories about themselves. And we have a specific language that
uses, as Ron stated earlier, the the proto-language of the vowels, A E I O U, which s is very specific to humans, has to do with the way our mouths and pharynx are about the same length, which allows us to say those vowel sounds. No other species,
CeeJay (35:49)
Right.
Mark Reeder (35:51)
no other primate can do it, no other species can do it. if
we can hear dolphins chatter, but they cannot produce vowel sounds. At the same time, our ears and the three bones in the inner ear are specifically there to distinguish consonant sounds, k, t, d, something like that. So we are a species which has developed specifically to be able to speak a language.
And that language, we, whether that language is gives us the ability to tell stories, but it also gives us the ability to pursue mysteries. And if we go back to Jacques Vallée’s idea of presence and mystery, I like to say that that there’s a certain percentage of humans who are like cats can’t leave something alone, have to pursue it.
and it’s lucky that
CeeJay (36:52)
Mm, exactly.
Mark Reeder (36:53)
some humans have, you know, more than one life, even nine lives, because a lot of mysteries can lead us down a path that’s very, very dangerous. But one of those mysteries has led us to a technological revolution over the last 10,000 years, including farming, Bronze Age, Iron Age. If you want to fast forward 1,500 years from
The birth of Christ, you have the scientific revolution of the 16th century and 17th century, you have the industrial revolution of the 19th century, the communications revolution of the 20th century, and the internet revolution and AI revolution of the 21st century. All of these stem back from that ability of humans to tell stories, and we are unique in it.
CeeJay (37:52)
Hmm Yeah, yeah, that’s that’s really powerful and makes a lot of sense to me. okay so
Yeah, please do.
Mark Reeder (38:02)
Ha ha ha.
ron meyer (38:04)
No,
there’s this kind of mystical place called Sedona, Arizona. And we did the protocol in Sedona in a football field high school with over two hundred people. And there’s part part of the protocol is to do a kind of meditation, mindfulness meditation where you notice focus on some aspect of your
your sensory system like your smelling or t taste or touch or body feelings, you know, and on. And
When I I towards the end of the protocol I th I I decided to look have people looked at the sky, you know, the ’cause you can close your eyes and there’s still something to see, right? You have that kind of black space. Sometimes people have things going on like the hypnagogic state and all that. And so, I said to the group, Now open your eyes and on our thermal within
sixteen seconds there were four fast movers, tic tac type thing in the thermal.
which was really cool. Moving out speeds that were, you know, impossible,
CeeJay (39:30)
Well.
ron meyer (39:30)
in terms of our consensus physics. And then do you know who Dean Raden is? You ever hear of him?
CeeJay (39:35)
Yes. Hmm.
ron meyer (39:37)
So Dean kinda joined our team and he he said, you should start doing asks. You know, ask the presence to do something. And
His ask for the second time we went back to the first place was to have Bigfoot show up in the form of a rainbow and I thought, Hell that ain’t gonna happen. But it did.
CeeJay (40:05)
Okay.
ron meyer (40:06)
One person said, Look, there’s a Bigfoot in the sky after I said, Now everybody concentrate and create a a Bigfoot
in the form of a rainbow. It was actually like this part of a a foot and then the f the the leg. And you could see the toes and everything. And inside was a rainbow.
so cool. And it shows
CeeJay (40:31)
Mm.
ron meyer (40:31)
that it has a sense of humor, right? ‘Cause
CeeJay (40:33)
That’s right.
ron meyer (40:34)
you think it’d be the big animal well no, he’s literally a foot a big foot with s that was a rainbow. And
CeeJay (40:42)
That’s cool.
ron meyer (40:43)
I did one recently. There’s this place there’s this tree, a sacred Ute tree that’s one of the tribal people that lives along the edges of the Rockies. Where people would come and get medicine and it was called a culturally modified
artifact or something like that. It’s a living tree. They modify it kinda like a bonsai tree. and I asked the presence to show a cold spot, kinda suggesting a portal, you know. And when I looked at the thermal, there was the tree and a cold spot was running halfway down from the top where the branches start.
to the halfway between the ground. Blew me away. And
CeeJay (41:30)
Hmm. Okay.
ron meyer (41:32)
then
we did the the group session and then people had to walk around to go to the tree and they put their hands on it and have their experiences and Mark could tell you about his and I’ve had four extraordinary experiences, my hands on the tree, so my only big foot. And so when my partner started leading the people to go to the tree, at the same time that cold spot started descending on down to finally reaching, you know, the base.
And it reached the base e exactly like f four or five steps before the first person put their hands on the tree. That’s cool, isn’t it?
CeeJay (42:14)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
ron meyer (42:17)
So I’ve like I said, I’ve had four experiences, all quite different from when I touched the tree. The first one was there was a big flip behind a shadow figure behind my son in law and it kind of blew me away, you know, big thing. I said, There’s a creature behind you and he said, Yeah, I know it. I’ve been feeling it and he was waffling in and out of existence. But then Mark recently went I said, Well you gotta try the tree ’cause he kinda was resistant to doing this stuff
And you can go from there.
CeeJay (42:50)
Yeah.
Mark Reeder (42:51)
So
Let me give you a little background first. As I told you about my experience as a child, it really didn’t force me. I just it was easy to say, I don’t want to talk about this. This experience I had when I was six years old, being in a sort of non-dual experience watching death. And but about five years ago when Ron asked me to s help him with the first book,
on the alien Bigfoot connection revisited. I I’m a I’m a realist, you know, I’m saying to him, you know, Bigfoot doesn’t exist, it’s just all hocus pocus, you know. but Ron
Ron didn’t insist that I believe in the paranormal. He asked only that I look at it objectively, these experiences. And slowly but surely, as I looked at these experiences, I began to understand that people who have paranormal experiences, these paranormal experiences open them up in different ways. some for a lot of them,
especially among the Lakota Indian who do the sundance at the at the summer solstice, it and and other tr and other plains Indian tribes as well, it allows the younger members of the tribe to actually dedicate themselves to the betterment of the tribe, for example. and so I’m slowly building toward this acceptance that this phenomena that people experience could also apply to me.
So, but I always refused to accompany Ron on any of his explorations when he went down to Sedona or when he went to Bradshaw Ranch, to Mount Shasta in California. I always just refused. I said, you know, Ron, I want I’m I’m helping you write these books. I want to keep my objectivity as a historian. Well, he finally convinced me on the last Memorial Day weekend.
To attend the the CE6 protocol that he and a group of about 20 people were doing. It started with this tree. And he asked me just to place my hands on the tree. And interestingly enough, when my hands were on the tree, nothing was happening. I couldn’t feel anything. But I like to say instinctively, or maybe just the objective realist in me said, Well, if nothing’s happening if you’re touching the tree, what happens if you
draw back from the tree. And at that moment, I felt what I can only describe as the heartbeat of the earth going from the tree roots, as deep in the ground as they were, up through the bark and into everything around us. And I thought, well, this is a really cool experience. I never expected this to happen. But that was just the opening because we later went to a
field where we did the CE6 protocol. And that’s where the Dean Raden ask of seeing a Bigfoot with a rainbow took place. And as we’re all in this circle, what happened to me specifically was the wind started blowing. And it would blow pretty hard for a short burst and stop.
My my rational brain is saying, this is just a micro burst. We have them all the time. And but as it kept going, all of a sudden I realized that the wind was actually talking. Now I don’t know for certain that it was talking specifically to me, but I did hear what it was saying, and it was asking me to go talk to a Navajo shaman who was there, a man by the name of Garrett, who was.
Standing within the group, at the edge of the group, and I went over to him and I said, The wind just told me to come over and talk to you. Whereupon he starts talking to me, not in the Navajo language, but in what he later described as the language of the spiritual elders. I do not speak any language other than English, other than a few bad phrases in German and some French curse words, but
I understood even though I I had no idea what he was saying, the import of everything he was saying was Mark, go back to that time when you were six years old and let yourself go. Don’t be repressed, don’t repress those experiences. Let those experiences blossom within you and see what it does for your life. I’m not saying that I am a spiritually
emancipated person or that I am a a guru of any kind, but a lot of repressed anger, a lot of repressed feelings have have been shown to me and drifted away. And I feel much more like I was when I was five years old and a person who explored everything than I have been for the last sixty-five years.
CeeJay (48:39)
Wow. So that’s a huge change for you.
Mark Reeder (48:43)
And that’s what I think happens to individuals who undergo these paranormal experiences. They can have a literal sea change in their life, something that promotes an inner
Health, for want of a better word, or a wisdom for themselves. It’s not necessarily that they have to go out and start preaching. Some people do, but it’s an inner wisdom that says, be aware, situationally aware of what’s going around you and aware of what’s happening within you.
So that’s my experience.
CeeJay (49:26)
Mm. Yeah, that’s wild. Thanks for sharing, Mark. That’s cool.
ron meyer (49:30)
So so the protocol
Mark Reeder (49:30)
It wouldn’t happen except for Ron.
ron meyer (49:33)
come on.
CeeJay (49:33)
Yeah.
ron meyer (49:35)
So, you know, the protocol also, besides these man weird manifestations that are impossible, has these effects on the participants. Some say, you know, they they’ve been healed. Others say they’ve they felt a calm and peace that they’ve never felt before.
fact the last one we did we went to what was supposedly the most haunted, terrible, paranormal place in Colorado where bad things are always happening. And I my ask was for the for for benevolence. And nothing bad not only did nothing bad happen, so the person who was arranging the the folks, another said, We can’t come there, you know, we’ll get sick, we’re scared.
It was the most peaceful experience everybody had. They didn’t want to leave, they just felt so good.
CeeJay (50:28)
Mm, that’s good.
ron meyer (50:29)
Indean’s
we ask was to produce a kind of a tornado. There’s a thing called a dust devil, you ever hear of that?
CeeJay (50:38)
Yeah, I’ve experienced them when I was in the desert in Arizona.
ron meyer (50:42)
Okay, yeah. Do you have them in Australia?
CeeJay (50:45)
We do as well, yeah.
ron meyer (50:46)
So I guess he didn’t want to say tornado, that’d be terrible, but when I did the chant A I O U five times, twice, a huge tornadic thing curved with wind, knocked my hat off, knocked some gear over. Coincided. And the other guy who has this equipment measures physio environmental variables like, you know, magnetic fields and that sort of shit.
his ask was that some barometric pressure thing would happen that would be unexplainable. And it occurred.
CeeJay (51:22)
Mm. Mm. Yeah. What do these experiences say to you about the protocol? I mean, obviously you’re opening a portal of some sort for this to allow things to happen.
ron meyer (51:34)
You
know, honestly I I’d like you to tell me.
CeeJay (51:40)
All right, okay, I’ll say it. What’s happening is we’re allowing ourselves to resonate with the pure frequency of spirit in such a way that spirit can manifest in any way that’s necessary for the people that are participating.
ron meyer (51:56)
That seems to be what’s happening in you know, in your language, that the presence is that. And and you know, Dean, he believes that that presence is us in some way.
CeeJay (52:09)
Yeah. Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah. Yeah.
ron meyer (52:11)
He makes that statement. Jeffrey
Crepel, Doctor Jeffrey Crypo, he believes that too. I
CeeJay (52:19)
Mm.
ron meyer (52:19)
don’t know what to make of it. He thinks it’s us
CeeJay (52:21)
Mm.
ron meyer (52:22)
for the future, that’s the presence moving us forward. I mean he says that, I don’t know if he really believes it.
So that’s kind of where we’re at and
CeeJay (52:33)
Mm.
ron meyer (52:35)
we’re trying to figure out how we wanna make make this public besides talking to people like you.
CeeJay (52:41)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, you need to make some content
ron meyer (52:44)
Really?
CeeJay (52:45)
around it somehow that engages people.
ron meyer (52:48)
And it said my name once. A disembodied voice said my name around other people heard it.
CeeJay (52:52)
Yeah, that’s cool.
ron meyer (52:55)
So it knows who I am. Now it knows who you are.
CeeJay (53:00)
Well,
Mark Reeder (52:59)
You know
CeeJay (53:00)
they call me every now and then just out of the blue when I go into my meditator states, I get my name called and things. And
Mark Reeder (53:06)
Yeah.
CeeJay (53:06)
even only only a couple of weeks ago I was went into a space and was meditating and one came through and pushed me really hard on the shoulder, just like literally just pushed me to just like you know, when you shove a friend. It was like a shoving from a friend, and I was like, and that was my recently past friend. And he turned up to do that and I was like, there you
Mark Reeder (53:25)
Mm-hmm.
CeeJay (53:26)
go. So these things are I I see them as normal.
I really do see them as an all.
Mark Reeder (53:29)
Yeah. Yeah, very much so.
ron meyer (53:31)
Most people do not.
And so our task is to make to to start agreeing with you.
CeeJay (53:37)
Yeah. Yeah. I think in time we you
Mark Reeder (53:39)
So yeah.
CeeJay (53:40)
know, we are seeing more and more people actually tuning into this sort of understanding. We’re going into the paradigm of magic according to to Robert Fort.
Mark Reeder (53:48)
Mm-hmm.
CeeJay (53:49)
So yeah, we’re it’s it’s just inevitable that this is happening, really.
ron meyer (53:55)
So you should learn
Mark Reeder (53:56)
I am I’m a
ron meyer (53:56)
the you should learn the protocol and then you can do one in Australia. That’d be cool.
CeeJay (54:02)
Yeah, yeah, no, I’ll I will. I’ll I’ll get your book and learn the protocol and figure out how to do it for sure.
Mark Reeder (54:10)
is it personally I I have an an interesting not not interesting I have an idea that Jacques Valet’s control system hypothesis and he states this actually has been operating for a very long time I think since before humans had language but our ability with language which we talked about earlier CJ
led to a technological phenomenon throughout history, I think has divorced us from that mystery, presence and mystery a little bit through the as we become more technologically dependent.
CeeJay (54:58)
Mm.
Mark Reeder (54:59)
And there could be lots of reasons why the presence of mystery is around andor that this presence is a manifestation of ourselves.
and has been for tens of thousands of years, but that it seemed to have taken a hiatus for a while, especially I believe in the 16th century with the scientific revolution. And science has a nice consensus box that it tries to put everything into. In the 21st century, with the advent of the internet, for example, people’s experiences are saying that consensus no longer answers the questions.
That of paranormal experiences that people have. And as more people share their experiences, like we are on this show, or among them themselves, or with friends, or at meetings, CE6 protocol that Ron Ron has developed, people are understanding that the scientific consensus that box just can’t answer some questions. And I believe that that presence and mystery, if we are the presence,
We are now beginning to understand and be connected to it again more directly, or understand that it is a manifestation of ourselves, that that mystery is not necessarily about technology. That mystery is more than just making our lives easier through washing machines, driving cars, and cell phones. I mean, we we all have one of these, and it makes our life very
easy in some ways and miserable in others. but I think that that paranormal phenomenon or phenomena now and that Jacques Vallet idea of control system hypothesis with presence and mystery is opening us up again to where we were before we started telling stories. And where it’s going to lead us, I don’t know. But I think we are in for a very interesting ride over the next few generations of
Humans as these stories are like a rock thrown into a still pond. All the ripples go out, reach more and more people, more and more influences, more and more understanding of what is going on. I I wish I were 20 years younger and could see how it is going to develop over the next generation, but I’m confident that it’ll be something profound for the human race.
CeeJay (57:33)
Totally agree with you. And I think that’s a really good rounded point to end the podcast on. I’ve got to thank both Ron and Mark. You know, your
ron meyer (57:45)
Yeah.
CeeJay (57:45)
your wisdom and information here shared today, I think is going to inspire others again and help them to to realize that you know, these experiences are normal and that we are going through a big phase shift.
towards a greater understanding and connection to everything really.
Mark Reeder (58:07)
CJ, so much thank you so much for having us on. it’s been very nice.
ron meyer (58:10)
Yeah, thank you, CJ.
CeeJay (58:12)
Yeah. Yeah.
How can people find both of you and your works?
Mark Reeder (58:19)
I have an author’s page for my science fiction and fantasy novels that I write on Amazon. also there’s a place called Lulu Publishing, which does my hard copy books. and then hangar publishing does the hard copy books of of the three nonfiction works on paranormal experiences.
The alien Bigfoot Connection revisited, the high strangeness of Bradshaw Ranch, and the high strangeness of Bigfoot at Hangar Publishing.
CeeJay (58:55)
Okay. Great. Okay. And Ron, how can people find you?
ron meyer (59:01)
you can check me out on IMDb, you know what that is. Internet
CeeJay (59:04)
Yes.
ron meyer (59:05)
movie basis, I’m I’m in there. Kind of chronicling my vast history of doing crap. And and so you know if you search me you can find things. We have a we have a a Facebook page called The Bigfoot Chronicles Trilogy.
CeeJay (59:26)
Yeah, I joined that.
ron meyer (59:28)
Huh?
CeeJay (59:28)
I joined that.
ron meyer (59:30)
okay, well then you know that’s one way. That’s the the only way I haven’t
CeeJay (59:32)
Yeah. Okay.
ron meyer (59:35)
really pr promoted myself. I’m not that kind of person. I’m not a guru. So I just can I Can I have one one other little thing if we’re still rolling?
CeeJay (59:40)
Yeah. Well look, I’ve got it. I’ll I’ll grab all those links and I’ll provide them in the show notes. Yeah, we are.
ron meyer (59:48)
You know you know, I I I was kind of criticizing more than criticizing the the co the current
scientific consensus, you know, that you find in textbooks and that sort of thing, which is mechanistic and deterministic and and but I d the scientific method is something different and it can work perfectly well to to investigate the paranormal.
Mark Reeder (1:00:16)
Yes.
ron meyer (1:00:17)
They’re they’re separate. They’re separate things.
Mark Reeder (1:00:20)
Mm-hmm.
ron meyer (1:00:20)
And you know, for example w on the protocol, Dean said, Well you got to set a baseline
See what get all your equipment, look at the place where people are gonna sit around and do the protocol. See if anything shows up. It doesn’t nothing’s happening until the people show up. So that’s you know, that’s basic scientific method kind of stuff to do, you know, to to make make a convincing argument for what we’re proposing.
CeeJay (1:00:49)
Excellent. Yeah. Well I I I think some people need to have that scientific basis to be able to have that switch into the spiritual and the greater understanding of their connection to the phenomena as well.
ron meyer (1:01:03)
Cool.
CeeJay (1:01:05)
Thanks again, Ron and Mark. I appreciate your time and yeah, it’s it’s been great.
Mark Reeder (1:01:10)
Thank you, CJ.
CeeJay (1:01:14)
What a wonderful talk with Ron and Mark just there. It was meandering, organic, without any aim exactly. We were going to explore deeply into Ron’s life experiences and his sharing through his media and content to do with the Bigfoot paranormal and everything. And it’s went on a tangent of consciousness, which is just perfectly absolutely all right. And I really enjoyed this conversation with Ron and Mark.
it w they are absolutely intent on connecting people to the other in very positive ways. Now, if you’ve enjoyed today’s show, reach out to them both individually and say thank you. And if you’ve also enjoyed today’s show and you’re on YouTube, like and subscribe. That’d be really cool. and if you’re on the podcast app, I I love good comments and I love good feedback. You can do that too on YouTube if you want. I’d love that too.
and thank you so much for listening and you may enjoy these episodes if you’re on YouTube.
