In this enlightening episode of Supernormalized, host CeeJay Barnaby sits down with Pastor Debbie Howell, an inspiring author, speaker, and devoted servant of Christ. Pastor Debbie shares her journey from a challenging divorce to becoming a pastor, emphasizing how faith can be a powerful force for personal transformation and community support.
Throughout the interview, Pastor Debbie discusses the importance of developing a personal relationship with God, especially during times of crisis and uncertainty. She highlights how prayer and scripture study can provide strength, peace, and guidance to those struggling with life’s challenges.
One of the most compelling aspects of the conversation is Pastor Debbie’s emphasis on forgiveness and self-forgiveness. She shares a touching story of an elderly woman in her Bible study group who found freedom from decades of anger through faith and forgiveness.
Pastor Debbie also delves into her upcoming book series, which aims to help readers engage more deeply with scripture and apply biblical teachings to their daily lives. Her approach combines personal stories, practical challenges, and spiritual insights to guide readers on their faith journey.
The interview touches on the significance of community in spiritual growth, with Pastor Debbie encouraging listeners to get involved in small groups and church ministries. She believes that these connections can enhance one’s Christian experience and provide opportunities for personal growth and service to others.
CeeJay and Pastor Debbie’s discussion offers valuable insights for both longtime believers and those new to or skeptical of faith. Their conversation provides a thoughtful exploration of how spirituality can offer comfort, purpose, and transformation in today’s challenging world.
https://debbielutherhowell.com/
Transcript
Debbie Howell (00:00)
as a pastor, even as somebody who, you know, I’ve been a Christian my whole life, there’s times when I struggle too. I struggle with my
CeeJay – Supernormalized (00:10)
Today on SuperNormalize, we dive deep into the life of an inspiring individual making difference in her community. I’m featuring Debbie Howell. We’re talking about her authorship and how she’s a speaker and devoted servant of Christ and who has made it her life’s mission to empower others in faith journeys. Debbie and I have a great discussion about her understanding of faith and how that can help people in.
finding guidance in their own lives during troubled times, which is really important, I think, because there are times when we do have a lot of darkness and not all of that darkness is self-generated. It can be actually, you know, influenced from horrible things that are in our spheres of influence ourselves. So if you’re looking to find new ways to actually connect with God and your understanding of the world and the importance of that and how it’s actually helped.
Debbie and her understanding of the world and helping others. This is a good episode for you. So I’m with the show.
Welcome to Super Normalized, Pastor Debbie Howell. Pastor Debbie, is that the right thing, is that the right way to address you or?
Debbie Howell (01:38)
That is perfectly fine. I’m fine.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (01:40)
So you’ve had an in… Well,
I’ll say Pastor Debbie because I think that’s respectful. So Pastor Debbie, you’re a passionate author, speaker and devoted servant of Christ. Has that been a path in your life, your whole life, or is that something that you came to?
Debbie Howell (01:55)
Well, I have been in ministry for years in different churches, know different ministries, know where they’ve needed help and I’ve always loved doing that, but I just recently became a pastor so I just love to help people to get to know people so I took the step to take the classes so that I be pastoring and helping people full-time.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (02:16)
Nice, nice. And what inspired you to do that? mean, was there any events in your own life or in the lives of people around you? Did something happen to make you get inspired to take that leap?
Debbie Howell (02:28)
Well, that’s an interesting question because you would think that that kind of a path would be like I was in a really great place and I wanted to help people. But it actually kind of was birthed out of a divorce that I went through after being married for over 30 years and kind of saying, okay, God, what’s next? What’s next for me? And then he brought the opportunity to me so that I could go back to college with an online.
program and become a pastor. So because now I was like, okay, I’ve raised my kids, you know, I’ve helped my ex build his business for over 20 years. Now it’s just me. Like what’s my path forward? And that’s the door got open for me.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (03:06)
And in your own personal opinion, why is ministering for Christ so important right now in your understanding of the world and the way the world is?
Debbie Howell (03:16)
Yeah, that’s a very good question. I think so many things are happening around us that really causing a lot of fear in people’s hearts. First of all, with COVID, mean, the whole world was wondering, am I gonna survive this pandemic? And then now I’m in America, so now with the new president who’s taken over, there’s a lot of fear and uncertainty in the hearts of a lot of people. So it’s just a help.
people remember that God is with them, that he’s in control, and he doesn’t want us to be afraid. He doesn’t want us to be anxious or depressed or all these things that take a hold of us when we just feel like our world is spinning out of control around us.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (03:59)
And so do you think that the experience of God can be a personal one for people?
Debbie Howell (04:04)
Definitely, and in fact I think that’s what he wants for each one of us. You know, lot of people who call themselves Christian, you know, they commit to going to church every week and that’s a great thing. But God wants so much more for us than that. He wants us to spend time with him and get to know him for ourselves.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (04:23)
Okay. And what are the benefits do you think for people that finally take that leap for themselves and go further with their faith?
Debbie Howell (04:30)
feel like it definitely is something that can bring us strength and peace, especially during the hard times. mean, the Bible is full of stories of how God was with his people at all times, but especially when we need him most during times of crisis or uncertainty, that he speaks to us through his word. His Holy Spirit is present with us on this earth.
and he wants to be our strength and our wisdom and to walk by our sides.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (04:59)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I’ve had some tough times myself and angels have reached out to push me in the right direction and it’s been amazing to say the least. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do you have any favorite prayers that you actually like to help people with? mean, during these times, you know, there’s a lot of, you know, of I would say nefarious spirits out there trying to lead people down wrong paths and everything. Is there any prayers that you use for protection or anything like that?
Debbie Howell (05:05)
Wow, it’s beautiful.
.
Well, I know one that I love to pray scripture for one thing. So I love to, you know, find promises and things about who God is and bring them into my prayers. I think one of the most powerful prayers for protection is Psalm 91. There’s a book called, yeah, there’s a small book, Psalm 91, full of these miraculous stories of people who have like been praying that scripture and the way they were delivered, like during times of war.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (05:36)
It’s my favorite.
Debbie Howell (05:50)
different things. It’s just remarkable. So that’s definitely a scripture that I will pray my way through for people. And then I just love the prayers of Paul in the New Testament. You find them a lot at the end of the books that he writes. And they’re just beautiful prayers of blessing and protection and God’s presence for his people.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (06:11)
Yeah, when you feel in that sort of dark space, the Psalm 91 can pull you through quite really well. And I found too, from listening to another podcast, these people were talking about, they said, try changing the words instead of it being general, make it personal. And you can actually personalize it. And when you personalize it, it actually changes it altogether. And again, it’s more powerful again. Yeah.
Debbie Howell (06:26)
Yeah.
Absolutely. It’s how
you bring it into your life, into your heart, into your situation. Because now this is God talking about me and to me.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (06:35)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And prayer doesn’t actually have to be just with the scriptures. People can pray just by reaching out and talking to spirit. Because spirit’s there all the time, right? It’s like we can’t escape spirit. We’re in spirit. Can you share any specific moments when you witnessed somebody’s life transformed through prayer or Bible study?
Debbie Howell (06:47)
Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
Well, right now currently every week I lead a Bible study for a group of women that are in their 80s and 90s. I even had one woman who came that was like 102. So these are women who just have so many stories to share and just sweet ladies. And there was one, there’s one in our group and she said that she had been battling with anger most of her life.
She had a praying mom who, I guess, prayed for her until she passed. But her anger stemmed from some abuse that she had at the hands of her father growing up. And she just had this heart of anger and unforgiveness toward him. And she just ended up, like, later in life, I think she was around the time she turned 80, God kind of, she had an encounter with him, and he set her free from the anger, and she was able to fully
forgive her father. And she just, when she talks about it, you know, what, maybe it’s been four years ago now that this happened, there is such joy and peace in her life. And I know that’s a result of all the years of her mom praying for her. And just for whatever reason, God knew that this was time that she would be receptive to it. And I just, for me, there’s no greater miracle than forgiving someone, you know, that wounded you as a child.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (08:14)
you
Debbie Howell (08:20)
and who you’ve hated your whole life, but now God’s here and he’s like, my power in you is greater than this anger, greater than this hatred.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (08:29)
And I think a part of that forgiveness too that people need to realize is that you have to forgive yourself.
Debbie Howell (08:35)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that’s, I think that’s a really sad part, especially when a child is hurt is that somehow in their mind, they feel like it’s their fault, you know, and it could be the perpetrator, what they tell them, you know, like this, you’re a bad person or whatever they say to them, that it’s bad enough to be hurt by somebody who’s supposed to protect you, but it’s even worse when
Somehow you take it on that this is happening to me because I’m a bad person. And that just makes me so sad because it’s such a huge lie and it can plague people for the rest of their lives.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (09:09)
Yeah. A lot of people have a negative view of Christianity and the faith path. And how do you approach people who find prayer intimidating and feel less distance from God? Because not everyone has this connection and they’ve had bad experiences already. So there must be a way that you approach people when it comes to this.
Debbie Howell (09:30)
Well, I just kind of want to start my answer by saying
as a pastor, even as somebody who, you know, I’ve been a Christian my whole life, there’s times when I struggle too. I struggle with my
I struggle in my prayer life because life is hard and sometimes, you know, you just think things that are happening to you are so unfair. So I guess it depends on where the person is at. Some people
don’t have faith and they don’t want to have faith. Like they’ve kind of chosen their path and I’ve chosen not to believe in God, not to have faith. So they’re not really open to hearing what I believe or what I want to share. But if somebody is hurting but they’re truly searching for answers, I would just get to know their story, get to know who they are, and just remind them that God is love.
Like it doesn’t matter if my faith can move mountains today or if I’m just struggling to even believe that God is real. Like what end of the spectrum am I on? But that doesn’t change who God is or how he loves us. And if we are truly seeking his heart, he will show up for us in ways to show us what truth is, to heal us and to just…
help us to find joy in life even through the hard times.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (10:47)
What is the most common struggle you see in individuals trying to engage with scripture and how do you address it?
Debbie Howell (10:53)
Well, I can kind of talk to how I was raised in the church. You know, I’ve been part of some great churches over the years. But the Bible was more of a mental process. Okay, so I’m reading the scripture. I believe these stories are true. I believe in God. And that’s a great place to start. But
Most, I would say just based on all the years that I’ve ministered to different people that there’s a pretty large percent of Christians that really don’t know how to.
know God through scripture. I mean, we know about God, but do we know God? And so one of the things that I do in the classes that I teach and you know, I teach in the books that I’ve written is how to really engage with God through scripture, through reading it, praying it, meditating on it, journaling it. I mean, we’re all different. So we all can all, you know, make that creative connection with God through scripture in different ways. But
to really invite the Holy Spirit into that space with us. You you mentioned the Spirit’s always with us. So just to realize that and be intentional to say, you know, Holy Spirit, I know the Bible, but now I wanna know the author of the Bible. And just say, help me to see truth in this. Like show me what is the scripture saying to me right here today? What’s on God’s heart for me? And begin to…
See scripture as an invitation from God to spend time with you so that he can speak to your heart and that you can know.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (12:18)
You’re working on two new books. Can you give us a sneak peek into what those themes will explore?
Debbie Howell (12:24)
Sure. So the first one is called One Thing I Ask, and it’s my journey of learning how to pray scripture. It’s a lot of stories. know, some have great like, hey, look what God did. Right endings. And some stories were more challenging, where I had to really hold on in faith because I’m like, okay, I think I’m doing this right. But like, why is everything falling apart right now? So just kind of raw, honest stories of the good and the bad.
in my journey and then I’m a big advocate to application. So at the end of each chapter I’ll just give a small challenge. Okay, this is what you’ve read in this chapter, try this. So we can begin to engage more with God through scripture. And then my second one is one thing I do. So that’s kind of the second step in the journey where now that we’re getting to know the God of scripture, how
Is that meant to change us? How does that change who we are and how we live our lives? Because it’s great to just follow scripture. Okay, I’m not going to do this because this is sin, this is bad, but we can still be challenged with addictions. We can still be challenged with anger, things that we just don’t know how to get on the other side of them. But as the Word of God becomes alive in us, it’s power. It’s power for change.
So how does that process happen? And then the third book is going to be called One God I Worship. And it’s kind of the last step in this journey of, know, once the word of God has become a part of who we are, our natural response is worship. But it can also happen even if our lives are messy, even if they’re hard and the kind of the
main crux of this book is my journey through the grief of my divorce and finding a deeper place to worship God there.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (14:16)
Nice, nice. Can you talk about the importance of community in one’s growth and how you’ve seen that play out in your own ministry?
Debbie Howell (14:23)
Yeah, I feel like this is so important. And it’s also, I think in many churches, something that’s lacking. In general, I kind of feel like the church has become something you go to, not something you’re living out. And maybe it’s because we’re so busy. I don’t know. I haven’t really done the research to see why that’s how it tends to be today. But community is so important.
for Christians not only to grow themselves spiritually, but to reach out to the world and show the world who Christ is through their lives. So, I think it’s really important to be part of a small group so that you can get to know each other and grow together spiritually. And you know, what I think is kind of neat is small groups in a lot of churches are changing.
It’s great to come together and read the Bible or great spiritual books, but some people are like, you know what, let’s form a knitting club or let’s form a pickleball club. So you’re still, you have that like Christian community, but you’re doing things that draw people into it because it’s something that they’re interested in. So being a part of a small group, I think is huge.
some of the groups I’ve led at churches, like the prayer ministry, the women’s ministry. I just, saw so many strong Christian relationships form within those groups as we came together week after week and, you know, learned together, served others together. So I just, want to challenge people. Like if you’re a Christian and you don’t feel satisfied, you don’t feel like you’re growing the way that you want to grow,
get involved in the ministry, get involved in a small group, and watch and see how that will change your Christian experience.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (16:08)
How has your personal faith evolved over the years and what lessons have been most impactful for you as a leader?
Debbie Howell (16:15)
Yeah, you have lots of good questions. I think you are. Yeah, it was interesting is though, just like probably every other person on this planet. My first choice would be for my life to just go well and be easy, right? But I think I’ve lived long enough to know that that’s not the places that we grow. So I think probably.
The places, the times in my life I’ve grown the most are through the challenges because that’s kind of where I had to really dig deep and say, okay, who is God to me and what do I believe about him? when looking back, like my books are full of so many stories of my life’s experiences. And sometimes as I go back and I read them, I’m like,
I really see God’s wisdom in this. I can see why I had to go through this really rough season in my life because coming out of it, I knew God more and my faith got stronger and I was in a better position to help other people as I understood their struggles and their pain. So yeah, I don’t know that I’ll ever get to the place where I will ask God to bring challenges to my life, but I can at least look.
back and say thank you God for what I went through and for how you were with me through all of that.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (17:32)
Do you think that the challenges that God brings to us are a form of initiation into a higher form of…
Debbie Howell (17:39)
Wow, okay, that had a process that one
CeeJay – Supernormalized (17:42)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Debbie Howell (17:44)
You need to write a book.
I would say, and there’s a big, I don’t know, there’s two sides to that as far as does God, is it God doing these things to me or is it the enemy doing these things to me because I’m living in a world of sin? But outside of that, what I’ve learned is, yeah, we see new facets of God’s love.
through challenges. Like how can I know that He is my provider if I’m not finding myself in a time of need? How can I know that He’s my healer if I don’t go through times of sickness? So I really feel like God is always here, but it’s in the times when we need Him the most that His light just comes shining through. I’ve heard it said before that, you know, don’t
You can’t see the stars in the broad daylight. You can only see the stars when it’s dark. And so, you know, his light shines the brightest when everything around us seems dark.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (18:42)
What you just saying that reminded me of a time when I was going through a lot of darkness. I was working for a company that was sort of completely chaotic and I felt as though I’d been abandoned by God. And I went to the lunchroom one day and I was just so overwhelmed with all the stress and everything. And I sat there at the window and it was raining. I’d been raining for weeks in this city. And I just said, look, I feel like
I’ve been abandoned. Can you just show me something? Just show me one thing to prove that you’re actually still here. And then the clouds parted just for that moment and the sun shined right through, right on me sitting on that table. And I just burst out in tears and happiness. And I realized that this is all a part of the story that I’m living and it’s okay. And then the clouds closed and it kept on running for weeks. I was like, could, could, can you get a better message than that? Right.
Debbie Howell (19:19)
Yeah.
Well, I love that.
Absolutely,
absolutely. And it just does so much I think for our faith to know that we’re being held like that. yeah, I just I totally understand what you’re saying. Like I’ll seek God’s heart and I’ll pray and I’ll be in scripture and I’ll worship. But then there’s times that I’m just like at my wits end. I’m like, God, I have nothing left to give right now. Like I’ve been trying to hold on in faith and the ways that he’s consistently
reached back to me in those moments. I was like, wow, like, this is how you’re always here, but right now I’m really seeing it. I’m really feeling it. And it’s just beautiful.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (20:07)
Yeah, have you considered that the possibility is that we are living in heaven and living a life in heaven yet maybe don’t completely see it until we are in accord with God’s wishes?
Debbie Howell (20:21)
So you’re saying that’s what some people believe, is that something?
CeeJay – Supernormalized (20:24)
Well, I
believe that. I fully believe that. This is heaven, but you can actually make your own hill for yourself if you want.
Debbie Howell (20:27)
Mm-hmm.
we’re very good at it too.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (20:31)
Yeah,
yeah, yeah. But if you live in accord with God’s wishes, then, you know, and your life path, then everything seems to flow just nicely.
Debbie Howell (20:40)
Yeah, it’s amazing how we can have peace in the middle of a storm and joy in the middle of, you know, the world falling apart. His promises are real. His promises are
CeeJay – Supernormalized (20:49)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. This is experience. We’re here for it. Yeah. And what do you think the purpose of our lives are considering your experience and connection?
Debbie Howell (20:58)
Well, I think our purpose in life is to become more like Christ and to show the world who Jesus is. Some of my favorite books of the Bible are the Gospels because the life of Jesus is the most beautiful depiction of who God is. And so to be able to live a life that honors Him and
For my life to show the world the love of God as Jesus did is like my biggest prayer, right? That every day I would look more and more.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (21:32)
Excellent. So how can people find you, Debbie, and find your books and maybe join in your ministry if they can.
Debbie Howell (21:40)
Well, I have a website. It’s debbylutherhowell.com and on there you can find my social media pages to follow me. My books are on there. My first one is available now. My second one will be on there and available in May. Still writing the third one. And I’ve got my blog on there. You can book me as a speaker, like I like to speak for events. I do creative Bible journaling classes.
that I love to teach. yeah, reach out. I’d love to get to know you and hear your stories.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (22:10)
And how could somebody who’s just willing to start that has found themselves maybe troubled by Christianity in the past, is there any prayer that you would recommend to them just to help them get themselves in alignment with just being in a tune with God?
Debbie Howell (22:25)
Yeah. Well, I know two of my favorite prayers of Paul are found. One is in Ephesians chapter two and the other one is Ephesians chapter three. So I think that’s a really good place to start. It’s Paul’s prayer that the light of God would flood our hearts, that we would experience for ourselves the love of Christ. I mean, it’s just this gorgeous, rich prayer. And the other…
place I would recommend is John chapter 17. This is Jesus prayer for his disciples and for us before he went to the cross. And it’s just this beautiful prayer asking God to bring us into the love of God that we would have the same oneness with God that Jesus did. And just find scriptures like that and pray them. And like you mentioned earlier, you could put your name in there, know, thank you God that you’re
flooding my heart with your love. Thank you for bringing light into my darkness. And just get to know God in the scriptures and see how he will respond.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (23:26)
Yeah, I appreciate your personal understanding of God and how you’ve shared it. And we’ve come to the end of the podcast and I was going to ask you, is there other questions you think I should have asked that I didn’t ask?
Debbie Howell (23:31)
Thank you.
Well, maybe just a little bit about how to use scripture to pray for other people. Well, you know, I’ve done this a lot. I’m a mother, so especially over my daughters, but also over friends. One thing I love to do is to go to Biblegateway.com because then you can put in just a word to look up something in scripture topically.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (23:44)
Okay, how would we go through that?
Debbie Howell (24:02)
Like let’s say what my child is doing in life right now is just I’m afraid they’re self-destructing, right? I’m just afraid for them. So I would go to Biblegateway.com, put in the word fear, and it will literally bring up every scripture in the Bible that has the word fear in it. And then you can even look up the scriptures in different versions on that website. And then I would just grab a notebook. I love to journal and put stickers and things to make it
fun and creative and I would just start writing out the scriptures where God says don’t be afraid or trust me and then I would write those scriptures out and put my daughter’s name in it and it’s I mean obviously these are God’s words so I’m literally praying his will because I’m speaking his words back to him so I know I’m praying what’s on his heart and then it’s a reminder to me every time I do it that
God is who he says he is and he does what he says he’s going to do. And that’s just a beautiful way to grow my faith as I pray for those that I love.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (25:04)
Do you see that sort of prayer as being like a form of deliverance from…
works that may be affecting people.
Debbie Howell (25:09)
Yeah, mean, obviously, God gives everybody free choice. So let’s say my daughter wants to go one direction and I’m praying that she’ll go a different one. It’s not about me trying to force my daughter to live for God or to surrender to him. But what’s incredible is the ways that I see him showing up in their journeys to say, hey, I’m here and I love you.
to try to draw them back. I’ve seen that happen again and again, and it just helps me to really remember how much God loves them and how much He is here to fight for them. So, yeah.
CeeJay – Supernormalized (25:45)
Thanks again, Debbie, for coming on to Super Normaliser. I appreciate all that you’ve shared and yeah, and your ministering is going to help so many people. I see it for sure. You’re welcome. All right, I’ll just say goodbye to the listeners.
Debbie Howell (25:51)
Maybe.
Thank
CeeJay – Supernormalized (26:04)
I enjoyed Debbie’s rich understanding of her faith and her ministering and how she helps to draw people to a greater connection with God, which can actually help a lot during troubled times. If you’ve enjoyed today’s show, remember to like and subscribe. It’s free. And also give me five stars if you’re on a podcast app or share it to a friend. They might enjoy this episode as well. I appreciate you listening and until next episode, it’s bye for now.
